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  • #16
    Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

    I already proved Triplethreat that this take was wrong last week. The ACC for example had a much stronger conference OOC SOS and overall SOS than the B1G did this year.

    Your logic assumes all conference teams win all OOC games and conference games are always tougher than all OOC games. Neither of which are ever true. A schedule stands on its own no matter how many conference games you play.

    Your logic is akin to saying a P5 OOC game is more significant than a Go5 OOC game. Which is patently false.

    Imagine if Wisky had played Penn State and UCF instead of Maryland and Indiana



    This is the angle that bothers me.

    A strong schedule is a strong schedule if you play 9 conference games or are an Independent.
    This point is one i've driven home for years. I look at the schedule as a whole. Regardless of 9 or 8 conferenxe games, OOC or whatever.

    If you play in a conference that is weak, schedule tougher OOC. If you play in a stronger conference, i'm willing to grant some leeway to schedule crap OOC....but not exclusively crap ala TTU.

    There is risks involved since the talent disparity and roster turnover could drastically impact how strong a conference can be. For example, the SEC was nearly invincible for a time, but this year it's mostly crap outside the top 3. The Pac 10 was mostly garbage and/or inconsistet 10 years ago, and now the Pac has a much better conference as a whole.

    This is why i think there needs to be a ban on scheduling OOC games more than 4 years in advance. Allows for rebalancing and opens the door to better matchups.

    ​​​

    Comment


    • #17
      While that looks cool Beamer, conference realignment isn't an option. It's not happening.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by theBHMAguy View Post
        While that looks cool Beamer, conference realignment isn't an option. It's not happening.
        Realistically, I could see 20-team regional super conference forming and resulting with essentially the same thing.

        But yea, the amount of money it would take to make that happen is astronomical.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

          I don't get the complaint on this. An additional conference game does not automatically mean a tougher schedule.

          I mean it sucks b/c Clemson & FSU are only in Blacksburg like once every 10 years or something but that's a completely different angle of argument.
          I don't care either way (I'm with you), with that said, I'd like it equal, because I think the OOC schedule should mean something too. So having every conference playing the same amount of conference games and OOC games would be nice. We will still have at large bids. Although the more I think about it, the more I like my # of wins over final ranking. Especially if we have a committee still involved. If we go back to a BCS type formula that can actually be predicted and understood, we can take humans out of it and any possibility of screwing someone over.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

            I already proved Triplethreat that this take was wrong last week. The ACC for example had a much stronger conference OOC SOS and overall SOS than the B1G did this year.

            Your logic assumes all conference teams win all OOC games and conference games are always tougher than all OOC games. Neither of which are ever true. A schedule stands on its own no matter how many conference games you play.

            Your logic is akin to saying a P5 OOC game is more significant than a Go5 OOC game. Which is patently false.

            Imagine if Wisky had played Penn State and UCF instead of Maryland and Indiana



            This is the angle that bothers me.

            A strong schedule is a strong schedule if you play 9 conference games or are an Independent.
            So 3 things.

            #1. No, my primary argument is based on simple math. It guarantees 6 more losses for the conference.
            #2. Wisky wouldn't have played UCF, they'd play Georgia Southern, or The Citadel, w/e. Bama took their game to play Mercer. Your own hokies took that opportunity to play mighty Old Dominion.
            #3. Overall conference SOS has absolutely zero to do with this argument. None. OOC SOS only matters if you believe that Old Dominion is better than the average team in any power 5 conference. I don't believe you would say that's true.

            There's 2 levels to this:

            1. Bama played Mercer instead of @Iowa or @ Wazzu.
            2. EVERY team in the SEC also played the Mercer equivalent in place of an extra conference opponent.
            a. This is going to inflate the entire SOS of the whole conference, because each team now has another win. Even if Mizzou still loses to some FCS school, you're still going 11-1, while the Pac-12/B1G are going 6-6.
            b. This is also going to inflate the poll rankings of EVERY team in that conference, because 9-3 power 5 team is going to be ranked ahead of 8-4 power 5 team the vast majority of the time.

            That's about as simple as I can explain it for you. If you don't understand basic math, then I can't help beyond that.
            Last edited by General_Grantlocks; 12-04-2017, 03:56 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

              I already proved Triplethreat that this take was wrong last week. The ACC for example had a much stronger conference OOC SOS and overall SOS than the B1G did this year.

              Your logic assumes all conference teams win all OOC games and conference games are always tougher than all OOC games. Neither of which are ever true. A schedule stands on its own no matter how many conference games you play.

              Your logic is akin to saying a P5 OOC game is more significant than a Go5 OOC game. Which is patently false.

              Imagine if Wisky had played Penn State and UCF instead of Maryland and Indiana



              This is the angle that bothers me.

              A strong schedule is a strong schedule if you play 9 conference games or are an Independent.
              Of course if you require every power 5 school plays 11 other power 5 games, then it doesn't matter if you are 8 or 9 conference games.

              Comment


              • #22
                ..and for the record, while I think a 9 game schedule is better, I think the PAC and B1G are stupid as hell for playing 9 when other conferences play 8.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I'm indifferent on 8 game or 9 game conference schedule. There are pros and cons to both.

                  Just pick one and make every conference use that.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by theBHMAguy View Post

                    Of course if you require every power 5 school plays 11 other power 5 games, then it doesn't matter if you are 8 or 9 conference games.
                    This is fine too, but would basically be the death of non power 5 football programs/many athletic departments.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by General_Grantlocks View Post
                      So 3 things.

                      #1. No, my primary argument is based on simple math. It guarantees 6 more losses for the conference.
                      #2. Wisky wouldn't have played UCF, they'd play Georgia Southern, or The Citadel, w/e. Bama took their game to play Mercer. Your own hokies took that opportunity to play mighty Old Dominion.
                      #3. Overall conference SOS has absolutely zero to do with this argument. None. OOC SOS only matters if you believe that Old Dominion is better than the average team in any power 5 conference. I don't believe you would say that's true.

                      There's 2 levels to this:

                      1. Bama played Mercer instead of @Iowa or @ Wazzu.
                      2. EVERY team in the SEC also played the Mercer equivalent in place of an extra conference opponent.
                      a. This is going to inflate the entire SOS of the whole conference, because each team now has another win.
                      b. This is also going to inflate the poll rankings of EVERY team in that conference, because 9-3 power 5 team is going to be ranked ahead of 8-4 power 5 team the vast majority of the time.

                      That's about as simple as I can explain it for you. If you don't understand basic math, then I can't help beyond that.
                      Your argument is based in false equivalencies.

                      1. Simply math doesn't guarentee 6 more losses for the conference. WVU lost to VT OOC. Swapping VT for an in conference game doesn't negate a loss for the conference.
                      2. That's an assumption. Ohio State played Oklahoma. Alabama played FSU. Virginia Tech played West Virginia.
                      3. Again, a single game does not make a schedule. The sum of schedule is what marks the difficulty. Playing Oklahoma and 11 scrubs is easier than 12 bowl teams. It doesn't matter who each is.

                      As to the LEVELS

                      1. Bama played Florida State, Fresno State, Colorado State, and Mercer instead of a random shitty SEC East team.
                      2. I don't think you understand how SOS works.

                      Under your logic, a B1G team that played 3 OOC + Illinois would have a stronger schedule than an ACC or SEC that played those same 3 OOC + UCF or Boise State or Oklahoma or anyone else. The logic isn't right.

                      I mean your examples themselves are fucked (final S&P+ rankings).

                      Alabama played...
                      • #51 Florida State
                      • #25 Fresno State
                      • #42 Colorado State
                      • NR Mercer
                      Ohio State played...
                      • #59 Army
                      • #95 UNLV
                      • #8 Oklahoma
                      • #118 Illinois or #47 Iowa
                      So really? Want to explain how that 9th conference game is sooooo much harder?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Since Beamer has truly just shown us all he doesn't understand basic math(like if you don't get the 6 losses thing, 6 more conference games, guarantees 6 more conference losses...and therefore 6 more overall losses...you're actually retarded, I'm sorry)...

                        I give up trying to explain it to him. I'll give you, David Shaw, Stanford dude, smarter than me. who has been a leader on this for years.

                        Last edited by General_Grantlocks; 12-04-2017, 07:29 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by General_Grantlocks View Post

                          This is fine too, but would basically be the death of non power 5 football programs/many athletic departments.
                          So happy medium
                          1. Every conference (power 5) goes back to 8 game schedule
                          2. 2 Non conference OOC games must be against power 5 opponents


                          Then you still have plenty of FBS non power 5 OOC games to schedule.

                          I also think you throw out an FCS game for counting towards bowl eligibility.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by General_Grantlocks View Post
                            Since Beamer has truly just shown us all he doesn't understand basic math(like if you don't get the 6 losses thing, 6 more conference games, guarantees 6 more conference losses...and therefore 6 more overall losses...you're actually retarded, I'm sorry)...

                            I give up trying to explain it to him. I'll give you, David Shaw, Stanford dude, smarter than me. who has been a leader on this for years.

                            Holy shit. I was trying to be nice but you are literally fucking retarded.

                            A 12 team conference plays one additional conference game. The conference must got 6-6.

                            A 12 team conference plays one additional OOC game they can go anywhere from 0-12 to 12-0.

                            The quality of the opponent is what matters. Not that it’s a conference game. A shitty conference opponent does not mean more than a solid OOC game.

                            Why is is this such a difficult concept?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

                              Holy shit. I was trying to be nice but you are literally fucking retarded.

                              A 12 team conference plays one additional conference game. The conference must got 6-6.

                              A 12 team conference plays one additional OOC game they can go anywhere from 0-12 to 12-0.

                              The quality of the opponent is what matters. Not that it’s a conference game. A shitty conference opponent does not mean more than a solid OOC game.

                              Why is is this such a difficult concept?
                              OK, good, now you've got the 6-6 part.

                              Let's look at the replacement opponents in those sec games:

                              While the B1G and Pac were playing conference opponents: Mercer(W), Louisiana-Monroe(W), Wofford(W), UAB(W), Louisiana(W), New Mexico(W), UMass(W), Western Kentucky(W), coastal carolina(W), SMU(W),Idaho(W), Troy(L), (11-1).

                              So read what Shaw said again.
                              Last edited by General_Grantlocks; 12-04-2017, 09:33 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Or we can just have 4 teams, and being undefeated gets you an auto bid, and not winning your conference automatically eliminates you from consideration.

                                There is literally zero case for a team who didn’t win their conference to be included.

                                If you weren’t #1 conference, you can’t possibly be #1 in the country. Logic, get some.

                                Comment

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