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SCOTUS draft opinion to overturn abortion rights

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  • #91
    Originally posted by JTrain View Post
    Those pushing the anti-abortion line are going to fiscally help those babies/families once they are born, right?

    I can't wait till illegals have babies and start voting for Democrats. (babies born in the US are US citizens)

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

      Until you've seen the negative effects a bunch of kids in low income familes have on society in general and their families in particular, you're just as guilty of projecting as Deschet is. Unlike anybody on this board(except maybe Fresneck), I have direct experience with low income childhood development. Both from my experiences growing up from infancy to about 7 years old in a subsidized housing neighborhood where kids were having to babysit their little siblings so their mother could work. Sorry, but a 7 year old kid is not capable of being responsible for a toddler for several hours a day. I can recall at least 7 babies/toddlers that died in the neighborhood I grew up with. A couple were killed violently by parents that blamed them for their situation, one drowned in the bathtub because their brother went to play with friends after putting them in the bathtub. And this was just my neighborhood, there are thousands of neighborhoods and 10s of thousands of stories similar to mine.

      I do not support abortions as a contraceptive, but I also can see that in some situations they are necessary. We as a nation need to be better about taking care of our citizens, and less concerned about trying to buy votes with immigration policies or abortion bills.

      You fix abortion by being better for the people before, during, and after the pregnancy. (Education, medical care, and better programs for underprivileged kids). Banning abortions want fix the reasons that people get them. You need to work on the cause, not the tool.

      You fix immigration by targeting the benefits. Ban out of country wire transfers, punish businesses that hire undocumented workers, and work on ending the stigma that blue collar workera are lesser people. We need less poli-sci majors and more carpenters. We need less lawyers and more farmers. We need less stockbrokers and more garbage collectors. Etc...
      I was going to say a bunch of shit. Then, you kinda said what I could not. Honestly, dude. Thanks for the share. You articulated a few things I could not. I’ve only experienced it second-hand, although where I was headed was that there are many underlying causes of abortions which we could mitigate.

      In a sense, abortions are — in my mind — the symptom of the disease. Which, if had to pick the biggest candidate, it would be poverty. It’s responsible for so many societal evils, and abortion is yet one form of fallout.

      As tOSU has pointed out on many occasions, people who are truly desperate can’t always rest on high-minded concepts as morality or ethics. It sucks to hear, and it’s entirely possible that impoverished people likewise wrestle with this, but it’s the truth. For example, it probably wasn’t an easy decision for that mother to steal bread and baby formula. Hell… one could argue that she had an ethical obligation to do so.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by sctrojan View Post

        I can't wait till illegals have babies and start voting for Democrats. (babies born in the US are US citizens)
        Democrats are total failures as well. And just for the sake of fairness, this hasn't happened yet...just leaked. There is time for a rational change of direction...but given this has been the conservative rallying cry since 1973, I don't have high hopes.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Spartan View Post

          I ask because it will become much more common if half to two thirds of the country makes abortion illegal in the next few months. Sites like this exist that offer cheap or free access to abortion inducing drugs. I think it's interesting to predict potential secondary and tertiary effects of this action.

          Either way, I'm much more concerned about the radical changes to case law that would result from the draft opinion. I think that the most likely effect of overturning Roe itself will be opening a Pandora's box that will affect Republicans in red states in potentially negative ways long term.
          Women shoot super glue into their ass cheeks. Basically, people are always going to do dumb shit.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Deschet View Post

            Okay. Fair. I know a few people on my Woke AF friends side that would likely, in their zeal, adopt a dumb-ass stance like that. But, honestly, among my friends, that accounts for like two or three people. It’s hardly representative of most people, even liberals. Knowing someone like that… again, in my experience, is like knowing a flat-earther. Except, those wired that way are almost always the vocal part of any gathering. So, I can see how you could think they represent the majority. Kinda how someone might assume you’re a Trump-lover simply because you’re a conservative, and fall on the other side of some issues. Even most political divides are not monolithic. The Devil is usually in the details.
            21% of pro-choice people wanted to have no restrictions on abortions. Another 14% think that there should be no restrictions until the third trimester. Almost a 1/4 of people who support abortions are perfectly fine with allowing people to kill their babies up until the umbilical is snipped and over 1/3rd are fine with aborting fetuses that could survive outside the womb. I wouldn't say they're that much of a minority of the pro-choice movement.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by JTrain View Post

              Democrats are total failures as well. And just for the sake of fairness, this hasn't happened yet...just leaked. There is time for a rational change of direction...but given this has been the conservative rallying cry since 1973, I don't have high hopes.


              LOL - republicans are all upset and DEMANDING that there be an inquiry into the leaks from the supreme court. If they rescind their draft ruling - it will show that the Supreme Court is about popular policy than actual precedent law - basically its become a political arm of the Right Wing -
              Last edited by sctrojan; 05-03-2022, 03:38 PM.

              Comment


              • #97
                So basically Alito has gone and made Abortion a State's Rights Issue.


                Defiant California leaders stood ready Tuesday to protect residents and nonresidents alike from any federal rollbacks of abortion rights, though they could face significant challenges in expanding the state’s capacity to serve as a haven for those arriving from outside its borders.
                Last edited by sctrojan; 05-03-2022, 07:30 PM.

                Comment


                • #98
                  A bunch of men on a message board arguing abortion.

                  Gotta love it.

                  I'm fully against Roe v Wade being overturned.

                  i'm sure that the next thing the government/courts will do is fix the broken AF health care system to make sure all these needs are met.

                  Also, LMFAO @ the Republicans. Don't you know you don't actually fix shit. You trot it out every 4 years as a rallying cry.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Bunch of middle or older aged white dudes arguing about what they know is best for women's bodies is the best example for this situation.

                    Comment


                    • Imagine thinking that you have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body...This seems apt...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                        We've been over this TTU, and I've shown you the data. When you want to talk about the vast majority of abortions that have nothing to do with rape or abuse or medical reasons, I'm here to talk, but I'm not doing the hypothetical thing with you anymore.

                        The death penalty, abortion, and euthanasia are state-sanctioned murder. The justification differs from one to the next, but the central idea is the same in every case: that someone has the right to decide who should live and die. I do not believe any person inherently has that right, and that taking a life in anything but the most absolutely necessary circumstances is one of the worst things a person can do. Not only are the majority of abortions not performed in those circumstances, but the vast majority are for things like "money" and "not ready", and I showed you the data about that last time we had this conversation. So yeah, fucking outlaw it. Some people who need abortions may get screwed along the line, but if I can save 800k+ people per year from being murdered in utero, I'm fine with it.
                        Humans in their quest for mastery over nature have sought to enlarge the span and quality of life, which left to itself would have us dying from malnourishment or some illness after about three decades like many of our ancestors.

                        Earlier in our history COVID 19 would have been seen as a punishment from the gods. People would have been put to the sword to prevent it from spreading. Homes and whole villages would have been burned to stop it. Instead we live in enlightened times where asking people to limit their travel from home, gathering in groups, wear masks around others, and get the vaccine were intolerable intrusions into personal liberty of the individual for the sake of preventing loss of life. Yet asking a woman to carry a baby to term for multiple months is a necessary intrusion into personal liberty to protect life. The incongruity between those too stances I have trouble reconciling. I can only think especially in cases of men holding those positions simultaneously is in the first instance deals with them directly and in the second instance indirectly.

                        Humans are rationally acting when they seek to achieve control over their own reproduction and reproduction systems. As a consequence, we are presented with decisions that were once handled by fate. In doing so we have also accepted that there may be a conflict of rights between a potential human and an actual one. Only the zealots or thoughtless people can pretend a conflict doesn't exist.

                        So what should happen when moral values such as liberty and life conflict? Which is more important than the other? Life? But countless people have laid down their lives upon the altar of liberty. Paraphrasing a founding father, "Is life so dear as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Give me liberty or give me death!" Why isn't control over ones cycle of reproduction and reproduction organs not a liberty question? Why should females be chained be chained via social mandate to pregnancies, early death, or disease? An ectopic pregnancy is a pregnancy that occurs outside the womb (uterus). It may be fatal to the mother. They should what try to ride that out because life is precious except for theirs?

                        I have heard stories directly and indirectly of miscarriages, still borns, "complications", birth defects, etc. I want no part of telling women especially or couples more generally what they should do or be made to do. I'd rather leave as much as possible to the individual free from government intervention.
                        Last edited by TTURedRaider; 05-03-2022, 10:03 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CheaterMichael View Post
                          Bunch of middle or older aged white dudes arguing about what they know is best for women's bodies is the best example for this situation.
                          Preach it brother Bellefay1.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by boomie View Post
                            A bunch of men on a message board arguing abortion.

                            Gotta love it.
                            to
                            I'm fully against Roe v Wade being overturned.

                            i'm sure that the next thing the government/courts will do is fix the broken AF health care system to make sure all these needs are met.

                            Also, LMFAO @ the Republicans. Don't you know you don't actually fix shit. You trot it out every 4 years as a rallying cry.
                            who are you and what have you done with Boomie? Boomie - if this is a hostage situation, DM me brother.

                            But ok, a lot of you board conservatives are beginning to frighten me with your completely sane arguments in favor of keeping abortion legal.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

                              Humans in their quest for mastery over nature have sought to enlarge the span and quality of life, which left to itself would have us dying from malnourishment or some illness after about three decades like many of our ancestors.

                              Earlier in our history COVID 19 would have been seen as a punishment from the gods. People would have been put to the sword to prevent it from spreading. Homes and whole villages would have been burned to stop it. Instead we live in enlightened times where asking people to limit their travel from home, gathering in groups, wear masks around others, and get the vaccine were intolerable intrusions into personal liberty of the individual for the sake of preventing loss of life. Yet asking a woman to carry a baby to term for multiple months is a necessary intrusion into personal liberty to protect life. The incongruity between those too stances I have trouble reconciling. I can only think especially in cases of men holding those positions simultaneously is in the first instance deals with them directly and in the second instance indirectly.

                              Humans are rationally acting when they seek to achieve control over their own reproduction and reproduction systems. As a consequence, we are presented with decisions that were once handled by fate. In doing so we have also accepted that there may be a conflict of rights between a potential human and an actual one. Only the zealots or thoughtless people can pretend a conflict doesn't exist.

                              So what should happen when moral values such as liberty and life conflict? Which is more important than the other? Life? But countless people have laid down their lives upon the altar of liberty. Paraphrasing a founding father, "Is life so dear as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Give me liberty or give me death!" Why isn't control over ones cycle of reproduction and reproduction organs not a liberty question? Why should females be chained be chained via social mandate to pregnancies, early death, or disease? An ectopic pregnancy is a pregnancy that occurs outside the womb (uterus). It may be fatal to the mother. They should what try to ride that out because life is precious except for theirs?

                              I have heard stories directly and indirectly of miscarriages, still borns, "complications", birth defects, etc. I want no part of telling women especially or couples more generally what they should do or be made to do. I'd rather leave as much as possible to the individual free from government intervention.
                              I agree, until you start talking about wholesale killing people and trying to justify it based on a very small minority of cases. Even if I conceded on every single extreme example you could come up with and said abortion is okay in those cases, it still wouldn't justify the vast majority of them. They would still be senseless, murderous acts carried out by selfish and insensitive people, that while I think are probably better off not reproducing, do not have the right to do that in my opinion. They should take care of what they created and be an adult, and if they can't, society needs to pick up the slack the best it can.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post
                                Also, can we stop calling Biden a Catholic? I know the church is cucked these days, but he contradicts literally everything they teach.
                                The church thinks contraception and morning after bill are little better than murder weapons. Also the Catholic church has a less than stellar record on caring for children who are out of the womb. But sure Biden is a bad Catholic for not wanting to impose his Catholic views.

                                Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                                I agree, until you start talking about wholesale killing people and trying to justify it based on a very small minority of cases. Even if I conceded on every single extreme example you could come up with and said abortion is okay in those cases, it still wouldn't justify the vast majority of them. They would still be senseless, murderous acts carried out by selfish and insensitive people, that while I think are probably better off not reproducing, do not have the right to do that in my opinion. They should take care of what they created and be an adult, and if they can't, society needs to pick up the slack the best it can.
                                Its a right with restrictions. You are completely ignoring the liberty implications. But what is life without liberty? People should have the right not to get a vaccine so they can die or infect other people with a diseases because personal medical liberty is supreme. But a woman should have no choice over her own body when it comes reproduction if birth control and condoms didn't work? Women just have to suffer through unwanted pregnancies for society sake but for the rest of us wearing a mask while traveling is an intrusive demand?
                                Last edited by TTURedRaider; 05-04-2022, 12:02 AM.

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