ODT: 2020 Post Election Drama

[tOSUfanboi2]

Yes. Trump won because of racial grievances. Not everyone who voted for him in 2016 voted for that reason. And sure, some voted to "stick it" to the establishment. But I would wager 70-75% of his voters supported him for racial grievances.

You're trying to argue that the Bulls won the title because of Steve Kerr. Yeah, he contributed to it, but Jordan scored 50.

Yes, racial grievances even though the only reason he won is because he carried a shit load of counties that just voted twice for a half black president. Makes total sense.

You can go now.

[DPR]

Yes, racial grievances even though the only reason he won is because he carried a shit load of counties that just voted twice for a half black president. Makes total sense.

You can go now.

Counties. LOL. Many counties that Trump flipped have populations of 10-15k. For example, Koochiching county in Minnesota flipped to Trump in 2016. Obama won it by 10 points in 2012. Trump won it by 20 points in 2016. That seems like a massive change until you realize that the county has a population of 12k people. HRC trailed Obama by about a thousand votes and Trump built on Romney's total by about 2 thousand.

Rice county saw Trump build on Romney's vote by less than a thousand but flipped the county by 15 points. Why? Because HRC fell behind by Obama by a few thousands votes.

Many of these "flips" were the result of Obama voters staying home and new Trump voters voting for the first time. There were plenty of Obama to Trump voters. But those were the minority. Most were new voters for Trump and Obama voters not turning out.

[tOSUfanboi2]

Counties. LOL. Many counties that Trump flipped have populations of 10-15k. For example, Koochiching county in Minnesota flipped to Trump in 2016. Obama won it by 10 points in 2012. Trump won it by 20 points in 2016. That seems like a massive change until you realize that the county has a population of 12k people. HRC trailed Obama by about a thousand votes and Trump built on Romney's total by about 2 thousand.

Rice county saw Trump build on Romney's vote by less than a thousand but flipped the county by 15 points. Why? Because HRC fell behind by Obama by a few thousands votes.

Many of these "flips" were the result of Obama voters staying home and new Trump voters voting for the first time. There were plenty of Obama to Trump voters. But those were the minority. Most were new voters for Trump and Obama voters not turning out.

https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_Pivo...ma-Obama-Trump

Don’t just talk about the outliers. There were 206 counties that flipped, including several in Michigan and Wisconsin that more than account for/explain Trump’s MOV in those states. You also have some in places like FL and OH where Trump likely would have won anyway, but certainly go a long way to disprove your hypothesis. People didn’t suddenly decide to become racist, they didn’t like your shitty candidate and lashed out against an establishment that they feel has abandoned them. Joe Biden has an opportunity now to repair the damage, but if he doesn’t, the same exact thing is going to happen again.

Anyway, I know that this people suddenly turning racist theory is big on the left right now, because it’s simply incomprehensible to most of you that people could look at someone like Clinton and be so repulsed that even Donald Trump looks good by comparison. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what happened. I’ll look forward to reading similar rationalizations when it happens again in 2024/2028 though, should be a lot of fun.

[Deschet]

https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_Pivo...ma-Obama-Trump

Don’t just talk about the outliers. There were 206 counties that flipped, including several in Michigan and Wisconsin that more than account for/explain Trump’s MOV in those states. You also have some in places like FL and OH where Trump likely would have won anyway, but certainly go a long way to disprove your hypothesis. People didn’t suddenly decide to become racist, they didn’t like your shitty candidate and lashed out against an establishment that they feel has abandoned them. Joe Biden has an opportunity now to repair the damage, but if he doesn’t, the same exact thing is going to happen again.

Anyway, I know that this people suddenly turning racist theory is big on the left right now, because it’s simply incomprehensible to most of you that people could look at someone like Clinton and be so repulsed that even Donald Trump looks good by comparison. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what happened. I’ll look forward to reading similar rationalizations when it happens again in 2024/2028 though, should be a lot of fun.

Sometimes, I wonder if you two read what the other writes. Debates between you two never seem to align. It’s oddly intriguing.

I don’t think the Left thinks many Americans suddenly turned racist. I think a better way of characterizing it is that, to many on the Far-Left, many were unwittingly racist for years and only recently were called out on it, and called out in an abrupt, negative way. I think the perception of those whom were called out was that they were all a suddenly racists.

Telling your uncle that he’s being a bit racist-y, for telling that same old story about “there went the neighborhood,” isn’t a bad thing. Calling him a racist for doing so might be.

So really, Trump capitalized on this. Those people who were suddenly wrestling with the notion that their actions — or, they themselves — were being referred to as racists, even though they didn’t view themselves as racists, gravitated towards a man willing to tell them not only that they did nothing wrong, but indeed, that they were the aggrieved party.

[DPR]

Hawley will object to the certification on January 6, which will not achieve anything other than delaying the inevitable by a period of time yet to be determined.

[Deschet]

Hawley will object to the certification on January 6, which will not achieve anything other than delaying the inevitable by a period of time yet to be determined.

You know someone will. Just to get his endorsement down the line.

[DPR]

https://ballotpedia.org/List_of_Pivo...ma-Obama-Trump

Don’t just talk about the outliers. There were 206 counties that flipped, including several in Michigan and Wisconsin that more than account for/explain Trump’s MOV in those states. You also have some in places like FL and OH where Trump likely would have won anyway, but certainly go a long way to disprove your hypothesis. People didn’t suddenly decide to become racist, they didn’t like your shitty candidate and lashed out against an establishment that they feel has abandoned them. Joe Biden has an opportunity now to repair the damage, but if he doesn’t, the same exact thing is going to happen again.

Anyway, I know that this people suddenly turning racist theory is big on the left right now, because it’s simply incomprehensible to most of you that people could look at someone like Clinton and be so repulsed that even Donald Trump looks good by comparison. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what happened. I’ll look forward to reading similar rationalizations when it happens again in 2024/2028 though, should be a lot of fun.

You keep equating counties as people. They aren't. And the "flipping" or "winning" of counties is the most useless metric out there. It literally means nothing. Cook County in Illinois has more people than over 85 other Illinois counties combined.

Trump got fewer votes than Romney in Wisconsin overall, but won the state because got 250k fewer votes than Obama. If every single Romney voter voted for Trump minus 2k and 250k Obama voters didn't vote, then you get 2016's result. Which doesn't involve any "flipping".

But because the state "flipped", people say "well Wisconsin can't be racist, they voted for Obama". No, largely the same people who voted against Obama voted for Trump as well.

[DPR]

Sometimes, I wonder if you two read what the other writes. Debates between you two never seem to align. It’s oddly intriguing.

I don’t think the Left thinks many Americans suddenly turned racist. I think a better way of characterizing it is that, to many on the Far-Left, many were unwittingly racist for years and only recently were called out on it, and called out in an abrupt, negative way. I think the perception of those whom were called out was that they were all a suddenly racists.

Telling your uncle that he’s being a bit racist-y, for telling that same old story about “there went the neighborhood,” isn’t a bad thing. Calling him a racist for doing so might be.

So really, Trump capitalized on this. Those people who were suddenly wrestling with the notion that their actions — or, they themselves — were being referred to as racists, even though they didn’t view themselves as racists, gravitated towards a man willing to tell them not only that they did nothing wrong, but indeed, that they were the aggrieved party.

Snowflakes. They have no problem calling a black man a "thug" for the mildest indiscretions but a white person openly supporting a political party that seeks to disenfranchise millions of black voters as a core party platform is just a bit racist-y.

[DPR]

You know someone will. Just to get his endorsement down the line.

He's also lying. Democrats have never done what he is proposing to do. Gore shut it down in 2000. Biden shut it down in 2016. A few House members objected but no senators, which is critical.

As a senator, him objecting actually accelerates the issue and they have to go to conference to hammer out the issues, which could take days.

[Deschet]

Snowflakes. They have no problem calling a black man a "thug" for the mildest indiscretions but a white person openly supporting a political party that seeks to disenfranchise millions of black voters as a core party platform is just a bit racist-y.

I get where you’re coming from. It’s a massive incongruity. But, it’s much more subtle than calling a black man a thug. It’s getting that sense of the heebeegeebees when you cross the tracks on foot and that sense of relief you get when you’re safely back in the land of gentrified bliss. The Devil’s in the details. So many are, on one level or another, a bit racist. We’re a long way from an end to racism. We’re even further away from an end to classism.

[tOSUfanboi2]

Sometimes, I wonder if you two read what the other writes. Debates between you two never seem to align. It’s oddly intriguing.

I don’t think the Left thinks many Americans suddenly turned racist. I think a better way of characterizing it is that, to many on the Far-Left, many were unwittingly racist for years and only recently were called out on it, and called out in an abrupt, negative way. I think the perception of those whom were called out was that they were all a suddenly racists.

Telling your uncle that he’s being a bit racist-y, for telling that same old story about “there went the neighborhood,” isn’t a bad thing. Calling him a racist for doing so might be.

So really, Trump capitalized on this. Those people who were suddenly wrestling with the notion that their actions — or, they themselves — were being referred to as racists, even though they didn’t view themselves as racists, gravitated towards a man willing to tell them not only that they did nothing wrong, but indeed, that they were the aggrieved party.

Which just goes to show how completely detached and bat shit the far left really is, and how/why they alienate people and force them to support someone like Trump in the first place.

The way people handle these kind of interactions just cracks me up. Out of virtually endless options, people always choose the wrong ones. The correct response to a comment like that is either to poke fun at them, be coy and get them to elaborate, or agree and amplify. Direct confrontation in the form of vicious accusations is the fastest way to get someone to shut down and not change their perspective.

Well yeah, why wouldn’t they? Better yet, what makes them any different than most of their critics? The answer is nothing, because they’re both idiots craving validation instead of trying to tackle reality head on. It’s hard to accept that the world consists of billions of entirely unique individuals, and that while some patterns within groups obviously emerge, they’re not reliable or consistent enough to live your life by. There’s also the void joining one of these groups or adopting a certain ideology fills for a lot of people, which is a whole other can of worms.

Anyway, the reason DPR and I get into it is because he’s a partisan and I don’t like partisans. I don’t like people who, for whatever reason, adopt beliefs that are inconsistent or irrational for the sake of maintaining solidarity with their group. I guarantee you that DPR doesn’t actually believe a lot of the shit he claims to believe, but he has to pretend because that’s the role he’s chosen for himself.

[Deschet]

He's also lying. Democrats have never done what he is proposing to do. Gore shut it down in 2000. Biden shut it down in 2016. A few House members objected but no senators, which is critical.

As a senator, him objecting actually accelerates the issue and they have to go to conference to hammer out the issues, which could take days.

I mean... I think most people know it’s not going to work. A devout few still have “faith,” I suppose. But yeah, at this point, we’re so far beyond Crazytown, I don’t even know what to expect.

[tOSUfanboi2]

You keep equating counties as people. They aren't. And the "flipping" or "winning" of counties is the most useless metric out there. It literally means nothing. Cook County in Illinois has more people than over 85 other Illinois counties combined.

Trump got fewer votes than Romney in Wisconsin overall, but won the state because got 250k fewer votes than Obama. If every single Romney voter voted for Trump minus 2k and 250k Obama voters didn't vote, then you get 2016's result. Which doesn't involve any "flipping".

But because the state "flipped", people say "well Wisconsin can't be racist, they voted for Obama". No, largely the same people who voted against Obama voted for Trump as well.

You’re trying really hard to spin this but it’s not working. I’m not going to look up exactly how many people those 206 counties flipped from Obama x2 to Trump, but a conservative estimate is at least a few hundred thousand. Did all of those people suddenly become racist? How many other people are just like them that aren’t represented in these numbers in some way, whether they be people who live in other parts of the state or what have you? My guess is there’s probably millions, though short of doing a deep dive there’s no way to really know. What I do know is, the explanation I’m providing makes a hell of a lot more sense and has more backing it up than your “muh racism” bullshit, which is basically just your feelings and biases talking.

[tOSUfanboi2]

I get where you’re coming from. It’s a massive incongruity. But, it’s much more subtle than calling a black man a thug. It’s getting that sense of the heebeegeebees when you cross the tracks on foot and that sense of relief you get when you’re safely back in the land of gentrified bliss. The Devil’s in the details. So many are, on one level or another, a bit racist. We’re a long way from an end to racism. We’re even further away from an end to classism.

Everyone is “a bit racist”, but that really doesn’t matter. What matters is how you treat people, and as long as people are treating each other fairly and well, I don’t really care what they think or feel or why they do the right thing.

[Deschet]

Everyone is “a bit racist”, but that really doesn’t matter. What matters is how you treat people, and as long as people are treating each other fairly and well, I don’t really care what they think or feel or why they do the right thing.

Okay. I’m going to play Devil’s Advocate. If

A. Everyone is a bit racist. And,
B. Treating each other fairly is the most important thing, then...

Wouldn’t treating people fairly only be benefitted by understanding the many ways in which we’ve been unwittingly racist?