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  • DSMoneypit
    started a topic Defensive use of firearms!

    Defensive use of firearms!

    I know people disparage the studies that say there are approximately 500,000 to 2.5 million defensive uses of a firearm each year. Here's just a snippet of some of those cases.

    https://youtu.be/b9NsPIxBzEE

  • DSMoneypit
    replied
    Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

    Again, suicides weren't in the numbers you lost your shit on several months ago but whatever.

    And yes, it is different. Gun violence is gun violence.

    And honestly, it's probably a significantly worse ratio than even that because how often are DGUs used in situations where lives were never even threatened by gun violence? I.E. someone running off an unarmed robbery suspect.
    Oh please. Including ALL forms of violent crimes and comparing that to the average DGU according to you (which I still think is low), DGUs represent about 4 percent of all violent crimes. 290,000 avg (robbery, rape, home invasion, etc...) compared to 77,000 DGU. In 2017 there were 39,773 gun deaths. Of which 10,982 were murders. Assuming approximately 50 percent of those (generous in your favor) you get gang/drug homicides making up about 7 percent of all gun deaths last year. That's not a terribly significant difference when you factor in the total number difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foster4Prez
    replied
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
    Is that any different than using the number of suicides by gun, or the more than 9,000 gang and other criminal activity homicides push through gun laws that only effect law abiding citizens?
    Again, suicides weren't in the numbers you lost your shit on several months ago but whatever.

    And yes, it is different. Gun violence is gun violence.

    And honestly, it's probably a significantly worse ratio than even that because how often are DGUs used in situations where lives were never even threatened by gun violence? I.E. someone running off an unarmed robbery suspect.

    Leave a comment:


  • DSMoneypit
    replied
    Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

    I don't think you could even get the harshest gun critics to say that guns don't save lives scores of times over.

    But I do think you are being disingenuous with your comparison of DGU to homicide rates. If you are going to use all DGU then you have to use all instances of gun violence.
    Is that any different than using the number of suicides by gun, or the more than 9,000 gang and other criminal activity homicides push through gun laws that only effect law abiding citizens?

    Leave a comment:


  • Foster4Prez
    replied
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
    Of course. And to answer thenother question, I don't take these at face value I'm simply pointing out that guns aren't only used in criminal ways. I'm also pointing out that by even the strictest of measures, guns protect more people than they murder.
    I don't think you could even get the harshest gun critics to say that guns don't save lives scores of times over.

    But I do think you are being disingenuous with your comparison of DGU to homicide rates. If you are going to use all DGU then you have to use all instances of gun violence.

    Leave a comment:


  • DSMoneypit
    replied
    Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

    Curious as to why you take these statistics at face value but not others.

    But I digress. Can we go ahead and agree that the 2.5m number is fucking ludicrous?
    Of course. And to answer thenother question, I don't take these at face value I'm simply pointing out that guns aren't only used in criminal ways. I'm also pointing out that by even the strictest of measures, guns protect more people than they murder.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foster4Prez
    replied
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
    So 77,000 a year. How many firearm related homicides happen each year? Even including suicides, you're looking at around twice as many defensive uses. That number seems to throw a wrench in your other argument...you know the one about you being more likely to killed/injured if you have a gun.
    Curious as to why you take these statistics at face value but not others.

    But I digress. Can we go ahead and agree that the 2.5m number is fucking ludicrous?

    Leave a comment:


  • DSMoneypit
    replied
    Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post
    You could use the more current BJS study number if you wanted to.

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

    338,700 DGU from 2007-2011 (Spoiler alert, your yearly number will drop yet again)
    So 77,000 a year. How many firearm related homicides happen each year? Even including suicides, you're looking at around twice as many defensive uses. That number seems to throw a wrench in your other argument...you know the one about you being more likely to killed/injured if you have a gun.

    Leave a comment:


  • daCat
    replied
    Fancy qualifiers make interesting statistics. Which lead to useless arguments. What a world we live in.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foster4Prez
    replied
    You could use the more current BJS study number if you wanted to.

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

    338,700 DGU from 2007-2011 (Spoiler alert, your yearly number will drop yet again)

    Leave a comment:


  • Foster4Prez
    replied
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
    I know people disparage the studies that say there are approximately 500,000 to 2.5 million defensive uses of a firearm each year. Here's just a snippet of some of those cases.

    https://youtu.be/b9NsPIxBzEE
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
    So a study was bad because it mis-represented the stats because surveyees lied. So you post another study that used similarly inaccurate information to produce a result (The study about people who own guns being more likely to be shot came from a phone survey btw). The facts are this, by even the lowest estimated figure (116,000 DGU), guns are used for defense at a much higher rate than they are homicides.
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
    Interesting, the DOJ study in the 80s found an average of 82,500.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...IHAhmDRbBOvbCZ
    Interesting progression.

    Leave a comment:


  • DSMoneypit
    replied
    Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

    Gun Violence Archive was only able to find roughly 2k verifiable instances per year.
    Interesting, the DOJ study in the 80s found an average of 82,500.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...IHAhmDRbBOvbCZ

    Leave a comment:


  • sctrojan
    replied
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

    It was a collage of defensive gun uses that were aired on major news outlets.
    All the major news outlets are supposed to be fake news and the enemy of the people - thats what your master has told you.
    Last edited by sctrojan; 06-12-2019, 12:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • daCat
    replied
    Originally posted by sctrojan View Post


    fuck off dacat I am sorry I have no time for morons like you.

    I am sure you don't feel the same way about fox news - trump told you to hate CNN so you hate CNN.
    I've been very outspoken of my mistrust in the media for decades. Your short-peckered memory can't change that. Nor can it change the fact that CNN's obsession with Trump has cost them tons of credibility among viewers of all stripes. Your bleating can't change that either.

    Leave a comment:


  • sctrojan
    replied
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

    Hahaha, that's rich.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/b...rump-ally.html

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...kpedlaing.html

    took all of 10 seconds. I could probably find more if I was willing to put in the effort.
    You're a trump voter who will quote NY Times against CNN and CNN against NYT to match your argument.

    CNN is a bonafide news gathering organization. The fact that they are center left chafes your pussy - but fuck off nobody wants to hear a gun nuts opinion

    Leave a comment:

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