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"If you vote for Trump, You ain't Black" -Joe Biden

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  • #91
    Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post
    If Democrats were true allies they would put some black people in true positions of power. Rather than letting the same old white people run everything no matter what happens in elections. I mean they could have made Rep. John Lewis Speaker rather than letting Pelosi do it a second time.
    Barack Obama GIFs | Tenor

    Obama nominated more black judges for federal roles than any other president. Nominated the first and second black attorneys general. Hired a black Nat Sec Adv. Oh, and if you'll notice, he's got a year-round tan.

    House Democrats made Jim Clyburn their #3 in 2006, a role he's held since. He's also the de facto king maker in the Democratic Primary 2 elections in a row.

    How the fuck did Nancy Pelosi pass by this guy? I mean other than being white and using her position in Congress to profit more than he did. So she has more money so they put her in charge.
    Maybe Lewis didn't want it? And Pelosi was the first female leader. I feel like you'd attack them either way.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by DPR View Post

      Dog ears prick up.

      https://apnews.com/e632316dc18e8964cae0e1088b317014

      16 states offered some form of a furlough to convicted murderers.

      "Since the Massachusetts program began in 1972, 117,700 furloughs were granted to 10,553 inmates. Of the 426 escapes, 11 occurred during the 4,908 furloughs granted to first-degree murderers."

      I mean, seems like Horton was one of the rare exceptions. Wasn't it you just complaining about how rare police shootings give a bad look to an entire program? Wouldn't singling out Horton to attack Dukakis on crime, when many other states had similar programs and the program itself seemed to be fairly successful, be grossly misleading, unfair and ruin an entire concept in our correctional system? Bonus points for him being black though. I'm sure HW's campaign was really thrilled. What, with Lee fucking Atwater running his campaign. Atwater, of "n**ger n**ger n**ger" fame. You really think that attack was primarily a policy disagreement? Because el oh el.
      Well ask Al Gore if he attacked Dukakis because of Horton's race, you know, considering how he was the one who started the attacks.

      I too, enjoy pulling random numbers out of my ass.



      You grew up in the south, right? I mean, let's be real here. Pre-1990 southern Democrats were racist as fuck.



      You're someone who thinks all politicians are corrupt. Why do you need to single out the black city councilmembers as particularly corrupt?
      Because that's been my personal experiences. People like Larry Langford and Ben Little were the tips of the Iceberg. The city of anniston built a brand new school building in the mid 90s and had to close it because a councilman took bribes from a construction company. It took them several years to fix all of the construction errors and reopen. I can't remember all of the names of the councilman that took bribes from Monsanto, but they helped poison the land for generations to come.
      I'm sure there are plenty of people only in it for themselves. But if you start accusing black politicians of not caring about black communities we're going into No True Scot territory.
      I'm not saying it's all black politicians, or all democrats or republicans, but my personal experiences growing up have been that these people don't do anything to help their communities. They use their positions to profit. Perhaps my childhood experiences have prejudiced me against politicians in general.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
        Well ask Al Gore if he attacked Dukakis because of Horton's race, you know, considering how he was the one who started the attacks.
        Criticizing the program and blasting Horton's mugshot everywhere are different things. And Gore was a southern white Democrat from Tennessee in 1988. It would not surprise me in the least if he courted the racist vote back then. Again, this speaks to what kind of a "progressive" can get elected in a state like Tennessee. Or Arkansas. Or Georgia.

        Because that's been my personal experiences. People like Larry Langford and Ben Little were the tips of the Iceberg. The city of anniston built a brand new school building in the mid 90s and had to close it because a councilman took bribes from a construction company. It took them several years to fix all of the construction errors and reopen. I can't remember all of the names of the councilman that took bribes from Monsanto, but they helped poison the land for generations to come.
        I'm not saying it's all black politicians, or all democrats or republicans, but my personal experiences growing up have been that these people don't do anything to help their communities. They use their positions to profit. Perhaps my childhood experiences have prejudiced me against politicians in general.
        Sure, I just think corrupt black politicians get a little bit of extra vinegar in attacks than white corrupt politicians. I'm fully aware black politicians can be corrupt. I've lived in DC and Baltimore the past decade. Baltimore elected Sheila Dixon and then she was sent to prison for fraud. SRB was lame but not inherently corrupt. Then Pugh came along and went to prison for fraud. Now Dixon is leading the charge to win her old office back. I honestly don't understand what black voters in Baltimore see in her but she's got a political machine behind her.

        I mean, we can talk about how absurdly corrupt Bethel AME church is in Baltimore, constantly churning out mayors and city councilmembers. But you can't say it out loud without being branded a racist or anti-Christian or whatever. It is what it is. But I don't see that as more corrupt than powerful white churches in rural areas controlling everything.

        Comment


        • #94
          I think the larger overall point though is that while Democrats have come up short on black issues for years, that in and of itself isn't some fantastic reason to vote for a Republican, especially someone like Trump.

          DSM, you criticize Democrats for simply using black voters and maybe there is, at times, truth to that. But on the other end, Republicans openly try to prevent them from voting and do absolutely nothing to court their vote. Their main goal is to make them apathetic and not vote, because that is a win for them. Republicans can't court the black vote and the rural conservative white vote at the same time because they've spent decades dovetailing racial identity into both platforms. I mean, talking about growing up, conservatives around my part would make it a point to make the Democratic Party the black party so white voters would know, if nothing else, that the GOP was the party for them.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by DPR View Post

            Criticizing the program and blasting Horton's mugshot everywhere are different things. And Gore was a southern white Democrat from Tennessee in 1988. It would not surprise me in the least if he courted the racist vote back then. Again, this speaks to what kind of a "progressive" can get elected in a state like Tennessee. Or Arkansas. Or Georgia.



            Sure, I just think corrupt black politicians get a little bit of extra vinegar in attacks than white corrupt politicians. I'm fully aware black politicians can be corrupt. I've lived in DC and Baltimore the past decade. Baltimore elected Sheila Dixon and then she was sent to prison for fraud. SRB was lame but not inherently corrupt. Then Pugh came along and went to prison for fraud. Now Dixon is leading the charge to win her old office back. I honestly don't understand what black voters in Baltimore see in her but she's got a political machine behind her.

            I mean, we can talk about how absurdly corrupt Bethel AME church is in Baltimore, constantly churning out mayors and city councilmembers. But you can't say it out loud without being branded a racist or anti-Christian or whatever. It is what it is. But I don't see that as more corrupt than powerful white churches in rural areas controlling everything.
            It's not.

            But this discussion is about why the democratic party fails the black community. And a back country Christian town is, more likely than not, never going to vote for a Democrat. Since most minorities tend to live in the larger municipality areas, the corruption around those areas is more widely documented. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's a crap ton of corrupt small town sheriffs. They just tend to A) not make the news much and B) For the most part don't harm their constituents. They just rob travelers blind with civil asset forfeitures, etc...

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by DPR View Post
              I think the larger overall point though is that while Democrats have come up short on black issues for years, that in and of itself isn't some fantastic reason to vote for a Republican, especially someone like Trump.

              DSM, you criticize Democrats for simply using black voters and maybe there is, at times, truth to that. But on the other end, Republicans openly try to prevent them from voting and do absolutely nothing to court their vote. Their main goal is to make them apathetic and not vote, because that is a win for them. Republicans can't court the black vote and the rural conservative white vote at the same time because they've spent decades dovetailing racial identity into both platforms. I mean, talking about growing up, conservatives around my part would make it a point to make the Democratic Party the black party so white voters would know, if nothing else, that the GOP was the party for them.
              I'm sorry, do you have me confused with someone who votes Republican? I haven't cast my vote for a Republican, at any level, since I voted for McCain. I've voted for an independent or not voted at all in every election since.

              You're absolutely right that the Republican party has not really tried to get the black vote. I think the traditional Republican values are more suited to a healthier nation, but this bastardization of democratic spending and religious right oppression disgusts me. As does the current everyone who doesn't vote Democrat is a homophobic nazi.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                I'm sorry, do you have me confused with someone who votes Republican? I haven't cast my vote for a Republican, at any level, since I voted for McCain. I've voted for an independent or not voted at all in every election since.
                You tend to attack Democrats far more frequently than Republicans though. Maybe that's due to the composition of the board, but it's just how I see things. And since elections are unfortunately binary and you had to fall on one side, I'd wager you'd consistently fall in lot with the GOP every election.

                You're absolutely right that the Republican party has not really tried to get the black vote. I think the traditional Republican values are more suited to a healthier nation, but this bastardization of democratic spending and religious right oppression disgusts me. As does the current everyone who doesn't vote Democrat is a homophobic nazi.
                I think referencing everyone is a nazi who doesn't vote Democrat is a bit of a straw man built by Republicans themselves. I'm sure some liberals say it, but most don't. However, given all that, it is pretty damn hard to maintain a level of polite disagreements over politics with people who refuse to vote Democrat when the GOP is openly hostile to multiple minority groups that don't have the political power on their own to fight back. When I see two parties where one will win an election, and one of those parties is trying to block minority groups from their right to vote and the other is trying to empower them, that's a pretty easy decision for me on who to support. Even if it is just for 1 election, sending a clear message that racial disenfranchisement is never to be tolerated. But, unfortunately, that has never happened to Republicans and because of that, they will continue doing it.

                I think third party voting is helpful to send a note to both parties, but in reality, neither party actually gives a shit. Voting for the opposition when the party in power is being awful can send a clear message too. It could also go a long way to fixing both political parties if they know they can't take their base for granted every 2-4 years.

                For example, if Obama won with 60% to McCain's 35%, do you think the GOP would immediately dig their heels in and object to every single thing he did hoping to solidify their base against him? Or would they realign their party a bit to capture more voters and expand their tent? If Trump won 60% to Clinton's 35%, do you think Democrats would be eager to impeach him or do you think they'd reconsider their entire party platform and who is in charge and cycle out the Pelosis and Clintons and Schumers in favor of younger, fresher faces?

                I dunno, I think it's worth considering. We never have landslides anymore and I actually think that is a major problem. We haven't had a candidate crack 53% of the vote since HW in '88. It used to be pretty common to crack 55% and even 60%. Obama's big win in 2008 was only 52.9% and that was on the heels of a major recession, skyrocketing debt and deficits, 5k+ dead in Iraq and more and more proof coming out that it was built on a lie, torture reports, loss of liberties, domestic spying etc etc. The GOP did everything they could to ruin their political clout for a generation and yet they barely suffered at all for it.

                Don't you think that is a problem? I mean, you voted for McCain. Do you think voting Republican in 2008 really sent the right message that what the GOP was doing was fine? If Hillary won in 2016 and drove us off a cliff with COVID, I'd be voting for a Republican president for the first time in my life this November. I think parties aren't getting truly punished anymore and that's the key issue. At least not in the last 20 years.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by DPR View Post



                  I think third party voting is helpful to send a note to both parties, but in reality, neither party actually gives a shit. Voting for the opposition when the party in power is being awful can send a clear message too. It could also go a long way to fixing both political parties if they know they can't take their base for granted every 2-4 years.
                  Actually DPR you bring up a great way to essentially bring "centrism"

                  its like when kids bowl you put up rails on each side so that kids never throw gutter balls. The balls keep bouncing from either side until they essentially hit the center pin. American voters are like kids - they can never seem to vote for good competent people (mostly republicans)

                  Keep voting for the other party when the ruling party goes off the rails like the Trump govt.

                  Comment

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