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  • #76
    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

    Aside from your obvious hatred of anything with an R in front of it, you're not entirely wrong. Do suburbanites tend to vote Republican when a Democrat is in office? Yes. In the past that was more about taxes. Republican congresses tend to put more dollars in the pockets of the middle and upper classes, where as democratic congresses tend to put more money in the hands of the 1% and people of the nation that live below the poverty line. So obviously they're going to vote in their best interest. Our government has been buying votes through tax dollars since forever. It's why we're stuck with the god damned 2 party system we have.
    LOL. While the 1% will always get theirs, I don't think it is Democratic policies that are doing it. Unless you think raising taxes on top earners and increasing estate taxes and capital gains taxes etc.

    Where you're mostly wrong is assuming that the reason yall lost in 68 was because of the civil rights movement. Did it cost some votes in the southern states? Yes, I'm sure it did. But as has been proven countless times, you can sweep the south and still lose. No, what cost that election was Vietnam. Rightly or wrongly, the escalation of that crisis was placed purely on Johnson.
    Even discounting 68, there was still 72, 80, 84, 88. And the only Democrats who won from 64-2004 were southern bluedog Democrats in LBJ, Carter and Clinton. Actually, a white Democrat from the north or west hasn't won a presidential election since 1960! And are we really forgetting Willie Horton? There is a reason that ad was run and it was to paint Democrats as soft on crime (hint hint easy on blacks).

    You're also wrong on thinking the democrats want to help the black community. They want to use the black community to garner political power, the same way republicans use religion to keep their base. None of the leaders of those parties could give 2 shits about their constituents. The Democrats use the "we will do all we can to lift your community, but those ravist Republicans will fight us tooth and nail. They'regonna try and put you back in chains". The Republicans will say "We're Christian like you, we're gonna fight to end abortion and protect your churches, but Democrats will fight us tooth and nail. They're gonna start taxing your churches and make it so you can't practice your religion".

    So get off me about the "REASON" the Democrats haven't done more for the black community is because "Republicans".
    It's not solely because "Republicans". It's because many Democratic voters are suburban NIMBY racists who like the idea of helping blacks without actually doing it. They are the people you're criticizing (I think). They are also a small but critical portion of the tent and the ones most likely to defect to the GOP if Dems push too hard on social issues. I'd argue these folks are the primary people keeping the party from going too far towards black issues (or any other minority). It sucks, but it is what it is.

    You're forgetting that I grew up in rural Illinois. There is nothing as effective at getting someone to the polls as "they are sending your tax dollars to Chicago".
    Last edited by DPR; 05-23-2020, 10:57 AM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by DPR View Post

      LOL. While the 1% will always get theirs, I don't think it is Democratic policies that are doing it. Unless you think raising taxes on top earners and increasing estate taxes and capital gains taxes etc.
      But they love to put loopholes in those taxes so it doesn't affect their wealthy friends.
      Even discounting 68, there was still 72, 80, 84, 88. And the only Democrats who won from 64-2004 were southern bluedog Democrats in LBJ, Carter and Clinton. Actually, a white Democrat from the north or west hasn't won a presidential election since 1960! And are we really forgetting Willie Horton? There is a reason that ad was run and it was to paint Democrats as soft on crime (hint hint easy on blacks).
      The furlough program that Al Gore had a problem with? Also, you can't offer low hanging fruit like that to a political opponent. That was a stupid program and shoukd have been painted in as bright of colors as you could. Furloughing violent criminals is idiotic and soft on crime.


      It's not solely because "Republicans". It's because many Democratic voters are suburban NIMBY racists who like the idea of helping blacks without actually doing it. They are the people you're criticizing (I think). They are also a small but critical portion of the tent and the ones most likely to defect to the GOP if Dems push too hard on social issues. I'd argue these folks are the primary people keeping the party from going too far towards black issues (or any other minority). It sucks, but it is what it is.

      You're forgetting that I grew up in rural Illinois. There is nothing as effective at getting someone to the polls as "they are sending your tax dollars to Chicago".
      I think almost 60% of democrats couldn't care less about helping the blck community. At least that's been my experience growing up. You grew up in rural Illinois. I'd imagine your first experience with minorities was in college. I grew up in subsidized housing. I grew up around poor black people. I won't say I know their struggles, because even being a poor white person in a mostly black community, I still didn't have all of the hardships they did. I did see how voting in democratic council members only bred corruption. I did hear the lies about how they were going to make their lives better, only all the council members did was gather donations, and move to the rich side of town.

      So no, I don't think the only part of the democratic party that's against truly helping minorities are the "NIMBYS" because those councilmen I'm speaking of were minorities themselves. I don't believe any party really wants to help their less fortunate constituents and it's why I won't vote for either party. If there's a good candidate who's rinning third party, they'll get my vote. This goes all the way down to local elections.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
        But they love to put loopholes in those taxes so it doesn't affect their wealthy friends.
        The furlough program that Al Gore had a problem with? Also, you can't offer low hanging fruit like that to a political opponent. That was a stupid program and shoukd have been painted in as bright of colors as you could. Furloughing violent criminals is idiotic and soft on crime.



        I think almost 60% of democrats couldn't care less about helping the blck community. At least that's been my experience growing up. You grew up in rural Illinois. I'd imagine your first experience with minorities was in college. I grew up in subsidized housing. I grew up around poor black people. I won't say I know their struggles, because even being a poor white person in a mostly black community, I still didn't have all of the hardships they did. I did see how voting in democratic council members only bred corruption. I did hear the lies about how they were going to make their lives better, only all the council members did was gather donations, and move to the rich side of town.

        So no, I don't think the only part of the democratic party that's against truly helping minorities are the "NIMBYS" because those councilmen I'm speaking of were minorities themselves. I don't believe any party really wants to help their less fortunate constituents and it's why I won't vote for either party. If there's a good candidate who's rinning third party, they'll get my vote. This goes all the way down to local elections.

        The reason you don't see democrats helping blacks (which is a false premise) is because we have had divided govt and the repubs have always held up any expansion in welfare (sorry if blacks are the main recipients because of systematic racism) or held up free healthcare (PP, any subsidies for Obamacare) or held up financial support to black businesses (like not cracking down on pay day loans or making blacks provide more collateral for bank loans)


        And lets look at Trump's record - he has dissed black leaders in congress - didn't even lower the flags for Elijah Cummins' death.

        But when you say 60% of dems don't care about blacks - at least 40% do care. Lets just say 1% of repubs care about blacks and that' s why blacks will vote for dems because they see hope with our team.
        Last edited by sctrojan; 05-23-2020, 11:24 AM.

        Comment


        • #79
          If Democrats were true allies they would put some black people in true positions of power. Rather than letting the same old white people run everything no matter what happens in elections. I mean they could have made Rep. John Lewis Speaker rather than letting Pelosi do it a second time.

          John Lewis - Assumed office January 3, 1987
          Since 1991, Lewis has been senior chief deputy whip in the Democratic caucus.

          Nancy Pelosi - Assumed office June 2, 1987
          In 2001, Pelosi was elected the House minority whip, second-in-command to Minority Leader Dick Gephardt of Missouri. She was the first woman in U.S. history to hold that post.

          How the fuck did Nancy Pelosi pass by this guy? I mean other than being white and using her position in Congress to profit more than he did. So she has more money so they put her in charge.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by sctrojan View Post


            The reason you don't see democrats helping blacks (which is a false premise) is because we have had divided govt and the repubs have always held up any expansion in welfare (sorry if blacks are the main recipients because of systematic racism) or held up free healthcare (PP, any subsidies for Obamacare) or held up financial support to black businesses (like not cracking down on pay day loans or making blacks provide more collateral for bank loans)


            And lets look at Trump's record - he has dissed black leaders in congress - didn't even lower the flags for Elijah Cummins' death.

            But when you say 60% of dems don't care about blacks - at least 40% do care. Lets just say 1% of repubs care about blacks and that' s why blacks will vote for dems because they see hope with our team.
            You're a fucking moron!

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

              You're a fucking moron!

              Of course you are unable to refute my argument - - go drink some Chlorox - you fucking trump voter

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by sctrojan View Post


                FUCK OFF YOU STUPID MARINE, no disrespect to Marines.
                Let me spell out why you're a fucking moron. The majority of welfare recipients are white. So no, the reason welfare isn't expanding is not because of racism.

                Though I will give you credit about the credit. Minorities are the victim of the high interest loans and requirements for higher collateral/down payments. There are a multitude of reasons for this which are not all due to systemic racism. But yes, they're disproportionately target for those things
                Last edited by DSMoneypit; 05-23-2020, 11:38 AM.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                  Let me spell out why you're a fucking moron. The majority of welfare recipients are white. So no, the reason welfare isn't expanding is not because of racism.

                  Though I will give you credit about the credit. Minorities are the victim of the high interest loans and requirements for higher collateral/down payments. There are a multitude of reasons for this which are not all due to systemic racism. But yes, they're disproportionately target for those things

                  Yeah that's not a talking point that's commonly held in republican circles - when ever you people bitch about "welfare queens" its always blacks - black women with a 3-4 snot nosed kids under the age of 7

                  Why does Trump rescind ACA subsidies? Because its money going to poor coloured people.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                    All of this is true and sadly, even when this piece of shit is out of office, nothing substantial will change. The only thing that will change is that more of our money will get taken in taxes for it to be wasted on other pet projects. There will be no reform of the crininal justice system, they won't close down the for profit prison system and the pipline it funds. They sure as hell won't do anything to try and close the racial divide.

                    We need a viable and moderate 3rd party. One that can find a middle ground to help heal this country.
                    You just found the only thing about which there is no debate between the GOP and DNC: neither want a viable third party.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                      Aside from your obvious hatred of anything with an R in front of it, you're not entirely wrong. Do suburbanites tend to vote Republican when a Democrat is in office? Yes. In the past that was more about taxes. Republican congresses tend to put more dollars in the pockets of the middle and upper classes, where as democratic congresses tend to put more money in the hands of the 1% and people of the nation that live below the poverty line. So obviously they're going to vote in their best interest. Our government has been buying votes through tax dollars since forever. It's why we're stuck with the god damned 2 party system we have.

                      Where you're mostly wrong is assuming that the reason yall lost in 68 was because of the civil rights movement. Did it cost some votes in the southern states? Yes, I'm sure it did. But as has been proven countless times, you can sweep the south and still lose. No, what cost that election was Vietnam. Rightly or wrongly, the escalation of that crisis was placed purely on Johnson.

                      You're also wrong on thinking the democrats want to help the black community. They want to use the black community to garner political power, the same way republicans use religion to keep their base. None of the leaders of those parties could give 2 shits about their constituents. The Democrats use the "we will do all we can to lift your community, but those ravist Republicans will fight us tooth and nail. They'regonna try and put you back in chains". The Republicans will say "We're Christian like you, we're gonna fight to end abortion and protect your churches, but Democrats will fight us tooth and nail. They're gonna start taxing your churches and make it so you can't practice your religion".

                      So get off me about the "REASON" the Democrats haven't done more for the black community is because "Republicans".
                      Quality post. I don’t disagree with much herein.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post
                        If Democrats were true allies they would put some black people in true positions of power. Rather than letting the same old white people run everything no matter what happens in elections. I mean they could have made Rep. John Lewis Speaker rather than letting Pelosi do it a second time.

                        John Lewis - Assumed office January 3, 1987
                        Since 1991, Lewis has been senior chief deputy whip in the Democratic caucus.

                        Nancy Pelosi - Assumed office June 2, 1987
                        In 2001, Pelosi was elected the House minority whip, second-in-command to Minority Leader Dick Gephardt of Missouri. She was the first woman in U.S. history to hold that post.

                        How the fuck did Nancy Pelosi pass by this guy? I mean other than being white and using her position in Congress to profit more than he did. So she has more money so they put her in charge.
                        Pelosi has been masterful at being speaker - why are you knocking her - she got ACA passed and trump impeached.

                        We have had more blacks in congress than you people so fuck off trying to lecture us.

                        TTU - if you want to vote for Trump please vote for Trump but don't come here justifying your vote for Trump because Democrats didn't elect a black speaker. We elected a black president so that fucking nullifies all your agruments - go sit down and fuck off until Repubs nominate a black person for president

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Biden should explain that blacks who vote for Trump are "real blacks" just like Trump claims people who didn't vote for him aren't "real American people"


                          Case closed

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
                            I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that Biden didn't just say one of the more racist things I've heard from a presidential candidate? I mean, trashing on Dynasty for posting multiple threads on the same topic is one thing, he's not entirely wrong for this one though.

                            https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...terview-274490
                            “Where has the Democratic Party gone?” Trump asked reporters Tuesday at the White House. “Where have they gone, where they’re defending these two people over the state of Israel? And I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty.”

                            Asked by a reporter Wednesday to clarify his remarks, Trump pointed to his own record, including moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal.

                            “I will tell you this: In my opinion, the Democrats have gone very far away from Israel,” he said. “I cannot understand how they can do that … In my opinion, if you vote for a Democrat, you’re being very disloyal to Jewish people and you’re being very disloyal to Israel. And only weak people would say anything other than that.”

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
                              Let me spell out why you're a fucking moron. The majority of welfare recipients are white. So no, the reason welfare isn't expanding is not because of racism.

                              Though I will give you credit about the credit. Minorities are the victim of the high interest loans and requirements for higher collateral/down payments. There are a multitude of reasons for this which are not all due to systemic racism. But yes, they're disproportionately target for those things
                              Yay - DSMoney is playing "Fun with misleading statistics" again. Yes, the majority of welfare recipients are white. But that's because non-hispanic white people are by far the vast majority of people in America. When you look at what race is most impacted by welfare, white people don't even scratch the surface.

                              Source (I know it's old but it was the best comprehensive one I could find quickly): https://www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/8

                              TABLE 7–1 Participation Rates of Households in Means-Tested Welfare Programs, 1994–1996 (percent)
                              AFDC Food Stamps Medicaid Housing Assistance
                              Hispanic 11.8 20.1 24.5 9.1
                              Non-Hispanic White 2.7 5.7 8.3 3.5
                              Non-Hispanic Black 14.0 23.3 27.0 15.3
                              American Indian and Aleut. Eskimo 15.6 24.5 43.8 11.4
                              Asian and Pacific Islander 4.9 7.1 13.5 5.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
                                But they love to put loopholes in those taxes so it doesn't affect their wealthy friends.
                                The furlough program that Al Gore had a problem with? Also, you can't offer low hanging fruit like that to a political opponent. That was a stupid program and shoukd have been painted in as bright of colors as you could. Furloughing violent criminals is idiotic and soft on crime.
                                Dog ears prick up.

                                https://apnews.com/e632316dc18e8964cae0e1088b317014

                                16 states offered some form of a furlough to convicted murderers.

                                "Since the Massachusetts program began in 1972, 117,700 furloughs were granted to 10,553 inmates. Of the 426 escapes, 11 occurred during the 4,908 furloughs granted to first-degree murderers."

                                I mean, seems like Horton was one of the rare exceptions. Wasn't it you just complaining about how rare police shootings give a bad look to an entire program? Wouldn't singling out Horton to attack Dukakis on crime, when many other states had similar programs and the program itself seemed to be fairly successful, be grossly misleading, unfair and ruin an entire concept in our correctional system? Bonus points for him being black though. I'm sure HW's campaign was really thrilled. What, with Lee fucking Atwater running his campaign. Atwater, of "n**ger n**ger n**ger" fame. You really think that attack was primarily a policy disagreement? Because el oh el.

                                I think almost 60% of democrats couldn't care less about helping the blck community.
                                I too, enjoy pulling random numbers out of my ass.

                                At least that's been my experience growing up.
                                You grew up in the south, right? I mean, let's be real here. Pre-1990 southern Democrats were racist as fuck.

                                You grew up in rural Illinois. I'd imagine your first experience with minorities was in college. I grew up in subsidized housing. I grew up around poor black people. I won't say I know their struggles, because even being a poor white person in a mostly black community, I still didn't have all of the hardships they did. I did see how voting in democratic council members only bred corruption. I did hear the lies about how they were going to make their lives better, only all the council members did was gather donations, and move to the rich side of town.
                                You're someone who thinks all politicians are corrupt. Why do you need to single out the black city councilmembers as particularly corrupt?

                                So no, I don't think the only part of the democratic party that's against truly helping minorities are the "NIMBYS" because those councilmen I'm speaking of were minorities themselves. I don't believe any party really wants to help their less fortunate constituents and it's why I won't vote for either party. If there's a good candidate who's rinning third party, they'll get my vote. This goes all the way down to local elections.
                                I'm sure there are plenty of people only in it for themselves. But if you start accusing black politicians of not caring about black communities we're going into No True Scot territory.

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