Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ocasio-Cortez: Morally correct > actually correct

Collapse

Google Ads

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Spartan View Post

    A person's reasons for supporting your cause isn't nearly as important as the support itself. To claim otherwise would just be a resort to those purity tests you lament against.
    The mind of a socialist. Logic of this kind is why the western world stood idly by after WW2 while Russia and co wreaked havoc on half the world.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Spartan View Post

      A person's reasons for supporting your cause isn't nearly as important as the support itself. To claim otherwise would just be a resort to those purity tests you lament against.
      I'm not talking about purity test but I always want to understand the reasons people are supporting a particular cause. I always want to know their reasoning whether I agree with the cause or not.

      For example, I want to understand why someone would support a cause knowing they are going down with the first purge of the revolution.

      Originally posted by DPR View Post

      Todd Akin is a punch line for the out of touch old white guy who thinks he knows more about female biology than doctors, nurses or, you know, females. Lamar Smith was, for I think 6 years, the Chair of the House Sciences committee who was holding up important science and research grants because he thinks climate change is a big ole hoax. So he wasn't 1 out of 435, he was 1 out of 1. Committee Chairs are incredibly powerful people. AOC is not a committee chair. If Dems made her chair of the House ways and means committee then maybe you'd have a point.
      AOC is a punch line for young people who think they know everything when they really don't.

      Congressman Hank Johnson (GA-04) announced Tuesday that he was elected by his peers to lead the Judiciary Subcommittee – Courts, Intellectual Property and the Internet. The subcommittee has jurisdiction over administration of U.S. Courts, federal rules of evidence, civil and appellate procedure, judicial ethics, patent, copyright and trademark law, information technology and the Internet. Rep. Johnson once during a House Armed Services Committee hearing expressed concern that the island of Guam would capsize. Johnson said to Admiral Robert F. Willard, Commander of U.S. Pacific Command, "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize". But sure make him the chairman of Courts, Intellectual Property and the Internet.

      You don't think it's a bit of an issue to have an open racist as a member of the Republican caucus? We're talking about Tlaib's "motherfucker" comment like it's supposed to be the sinking of political discourse while we pretend that the GOP is happy to caucus with a guy who doesn't seem to mind making incredibly racist comments?

      I mean, Don Young is still around and he calls Mexicans "wetbacks" like it's no big deal, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. They are who we thought they were
      O I do but I was just applying your he is one of 435 logic. I think members of Congress shouldn't be racists, morons, or willfully mislead the American people. I'm idealistic that way but they are who we thought they were.

      Yeah, I'm not defending her here. She misled or outright lied about her numbers. I wish she didn't, but she probably saw that facts don't matter anymore and just playing on people's emotions is the way to electoral success.

      Most Republican politicians and pundits do this on a daily basis. Why are you so concerned about AOC doing it?
      Facts never mattered much to politicians. As a Democrat don't pretend the concept of playing on people's emotion is somehow foreign to you. Since I could vote in presidential elections every Republican has been labeled a racist and Hitler. What was it Albright said? "There is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women." Think she voted for McCain/Palin in '08? Vice President Joe Biden told a diverse Virginia audience said "They're going to put y'all back in chains". Just to begin with do people in Delaware use y'all a lot? I could keep going and none of that shirt concerned you.

      What Trump and his pundits do on a daily basis concerns me. So I don't support him or watch cable news which pay pundits that lie to me. I voted mostly for only Democrats in the last election at the federal level because of the Republican's party going along with Trump's bullshit. I see no reason to discuss their bullshit because we agree on that and I have made my feelings known about Trump. Yet you always make me out like I'm some shit for their bullshit. Ocasio-Cortez Blasts Trump For Funding ICE, Days After She Voted For Its Funding

      Bless her heart.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

        I'm not talking about purity test but I always want to understand the reasons people are supporting a particular cause. I always want to know their reasoning whether I agree with the cause or not.

        For example, I want to understand why someone would support a cause knowing they are going down with the first purge of the revolution.
        How much have you seen me advocating workers seizing the means of production through direct action? As much as I don't believe in it, I spend most of my energy trying to save capitalism from itself.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

          The mind of a socialist. Logic of this kind is why the western world stood idly by after WW2 while Russia and co wreaked havoc on half the world.
          Your kind betrayed us in 1919. I don't know who else you expected them to turn to.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Spartan View Post

            Your kind betrayed us in 1919. I don't know who else you expected them to turn to.
            What is my kind?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

              AOC is a punch line for young people who think they know everything when they really don't.
              I think it's less about knowing everything and more about knowing enough to know they are getting fucked.

              Congressman Hank Johnson (GA-04) announced Tuesday that he was elected by his peers to lead the Judiciary Subcommittee – Courts, Intellectual Property and the Internet. The subcommittee has jurisdiction over administration of U.S. Courts, federal rules of evidence, civil and appellate procedure, judicial ethics, patent, copyright and trademark law, information technology and the Internet. Rep. Johnson once during a House Armed Services Committee hearing expressed concern that the island of Guam would capsize. Johnson said to Admiral Robert F. Willard, Commander of U.S. Pacific Command, "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize". But sure make him the chairman of Courts, Intellectual Property and the Internet.
              Hank claims he was kidding with the Guam thing. I personally think he asked a stupid question and, when called on it, pretended he was only kidding. But the main point is that once presented with evidence, he accepted the evidence and he no longer thinks Guam would capsize, if he ever did at all.

              Compare that to Lamar Smith, who is presented with evidence of climate change and keeps denying that evidence and calling it a hoax and used his power as Science chair to strip funding from countless projects due to his lack of belief in....science. I'm surprised you think these are comparable.


              O I do but I was just applying your he is one of 435 logic. I think members of Congress shouldn't be racists, morons, or willfully mislead the American people. I'm idealistic that way but they are who we thought they were.
              Ole Stevey is in the news again today from a NYT interview where he asks the question: “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

              https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/u...tion-wall.html

              To the GOP's credit, it looks like they are going to try and primary him in 2020. I'm not sure if that is because he's a literal Klansmen or if it's because he's in a safely red district and only won reelection by 3 points?

              Facts never mattered much to politicians. As a Democrat don't pretend the concept of playing on people's emotion is somehow foreign to you. Since I could vote in presidential elections every Republican has been labeled a racist and Hitler. What was it Albright said? "There is a special place in hell for women who don't support other women." Think she voted for McCain/Palin in '08? Vice President Joe Biden told a diverse Virginia audience said "They're going to put y'all back in chains". Just to begin with do people in Delaware use y'all a lot? I could keep going and none of that shirt concerned you.
              I have no love for Joe Biden and I'm pretty sure I was critical of him when he made that comment back in 2012 about chains. I have zero intention to vote for him in the primary in 2020. If its him or Trump, I'll vote for him, but I really hope someone else wins. As for Albright, I don't think she could be picked out of a lineup from any American under the age of 35. She's not exactly a major face in the Democratic Party in 2019.

              What Trump and his pundits do on a daily basis concerns me. So I don't support him or watch cable news which pay pundits that lie to me. I voted mostly for only Democrats in the last election at the federal level because of the Republican's party going along with Trump's bullshit. I see no reason to discuss their bullshit because we agree on that and I have made my feelings known about Trump. Yet you always make me out like I'm some shit for their bullshit. Ocasio-Cortez Blasts Trump For Funding ICE, Days After She Voted For Its Funding

              Bless her heart.
              Isn't her criticism that Trump is only trying to fund ICE and nothing else? She opted to fund ICE with everything else, sans the wall.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                What is my kind?
                Capitalists who would panic and go full classical liberal at any hint of a mixed economy. Those who fall on the other side of the red scares.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Spartan View Post

                  Capitalists who would panic and go full classical liberal at any hint of a mixed economy. Those who fall on the other side of the red scares.
                  Okay, how would you define a mixed economy? I'm just trying to make sure we're on the same page here before I respond.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                    Okay, how would you define a mixed economy? I'm just trying to make sure we're on the same page here before I respond.
                    Specifically related to the example, it has to do with the relationship between labor, capital, and production. In a more general sense, it's an economy in which the shortcomings of a market economy are made up for by elements of a command economy and vice versa.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Spartan View Post

                      Specifically related to the example, it has to do with the relationship between labor, capital, and production. In a more general sense, it's an economy in which the shortcomings of a market economy are made up for by elements of a command economy and vice versa.
                      Okay. Can you provide me some examples?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                        How much have you seen me advocating workers seizing the means of production through direct action? As much as I don't believe in it, I spend most of my energy trying to save capitalism from itself.
                        I know Democratic Socialist not a revolutionary but you said you would be purged. I just think its interesting that you know that but still press on. Like advocating for the French Revolution despite knowing you are going to end up at the guillotine.

                        I don't mind advocating to give capitalism a chamfered edge but when others want to make it a bevel I think they go too far. You said it yourself before...

                        "1. Liberals come to power with the help of socialists.
                        2. Socialists push a bit too far for liberals."

                        Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                        Your kind betrayed us in 1919. I don't know who else you expected them to turn to.
                        1919 betrayal... Woodrow Wilson or what happened in Germany?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          [QUOTE=DPR;n507456]

                          I think it's less about knowing everything and more about knowing enough to know they are getting fucked.[QUOTE]

                          I welcome to life. Knowing enough to express you don't like like certain things is something very young children can do. It's much harder to come up with solutions that are achievable that actually address those things while convincing others to help you implement them.

                          Hank claims he was kidding with the Guam thing. I personally think he asked a stupid question and, when called on it, pretended he was only kidding. But the main point is that once presented with evidence, he accepted the evidence and he no longer thinks Guam would capsize, if he ever did at all.

                          Compare that to Lamar Smith, who is presented with evidence of climate change and keeps denying that evidence and calling it a hoax and used his power as Science chair to strip funding from countless projects due to his lack of belief in....science. I'm surprised you think these are comparable.
                          One thought an island could capsize like a boat and the other had a lack of belief in science. I feel like their grades in earth science would be comparable.

                          Ole Stevey is in the news again today from a NYT interview where he asks the question: “White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?”

                          https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/u...tion-wall.html

                          To the GOP's credit, it looks like they are going to try and primary him in 2020. I'm not sure if that is because he's a literal Klansmen or if it's because he's in a safely red district and only won reelection by 3 points?
                          I would hope because he's a literal Klansmen but its probably a mixture of both.

                          I have no love for Joe Biden and I'm pretty sure I was critical of him when he made that comment back in 2012 about chains. I have zero intention to vote for him in the primary in 2020. If its him or Trump, I'll vote for him, but I really hope someone else wins. As for Albright, I don't think she could be picked out of a lineup from any American under the age of 35. She's not exactly a major face in the Democratic Party in 2019.
                          We both know she was Sec of State for Bill Clinton and in 2016 she tried to gender shame women to voting for Hillary. Which was still a thing in 2018 and will be again in 2020. Under that logic I guess I'm suppose to vote Trump vs Warren since we are both male.

                          Isn't her criticism that Trump is only trying to fund ICE and nothing else? She opted to fund ICE with everything else, sans the wall.
                          No it's not. She said ICE has systematically violated human rights and President Trump should have to defend why we are funding such an agency right now at all. Yet she voted to fund it.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            [QUOTE=TTURedRaider;n507539][QUOTE=DPR;n507456]

                            I think it's less about knowing everything and more about knowing enough to know they are getting fucked.

                            I welcome to life. Knowing enough to express you don't like like certain things is something very young children can do. It's much harder to come up with solutions that are achievable that actually address those things while convincing others to help you implement them.



                            One thought an island could capsize like a boat and the other had a lack of belief in science. I feel like their grades in earth science would be comparable.



                            I would hope because he's a literal Klansmen but its probably a mixture of both.



                            We both know she was Sec of State for Bill Clinton and in 2016 she tried to gender shame women to voting for Hillary. Which was still a thing in 2018 and will be again in 2020. Under that logic I guess I'm suppose to vote Trump vs Warren since we are both male.



                            No it's not. She said ICE has systematically violated human rights and President Trump should have to defend why we are funding such an agency right now at all. Yet she voted to fund it.
                            It's entirely possible she didn't understand what she voted for. She is seriously that stupid.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

                              One thought an island could capsize like a boat and the other had a lack of belief in science. I feel like their grades in earth science would be comparable.
                              Thought, and then educated himself and no longer thinks that. Lamar Smith still doesn't believe in science that runs contrary to his pre-existing beliefs. You saying they are comparable is only true if Lamar changes his views when presented with evidence.

                              No it's not. She said ICE has systematically violated human rights and President Trump should have to defend why we are funding such an agency right now at all. Yet she voted to fund it.
                              She voted to fund it with everything else. Are you arguing that she's...able to compromise on a vote?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                                Okay. Can you provide me some examples?
                                The US became an example after 1933, but not really a great one because it has many of the drawbacks of both market and command economies.

                                If you're asking what I would change about a market economy, it's the same platform I've laid out elsewhere. I would abolish all consumption and productivity taxes in favor of wealth taxes. I would limit the total amount of money any individual is allow to donate to political candidates and provide a public fund available to all candidates who manage to get on enough ballots to be able to win the election. I would incentivize at least partial labor ownership of all publicly traded corporations. I would abolish all means based social assistance and replace it with a single non-means based UBI. You get the idea.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X