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  • Originally posted by Spartan View Post

    The biggest examples are in education, healthcare, housing, criminal justice, and the environment. But let's use something obvious here.

    In regulating business, the socialist approach would obviously be to nationalize just about everything. The compromise position would be to enforce existing laws and break up those businesses that are too big to fail like had been done before the first red scare. Neoliberals take that compromise further and do not break up any monopolistic business while only preventing further consolidation by corporations which are not run by their donors like in the Staples-Office Depot merger.
    Nationalizing everything is bullshit. But I'm absolutely okay with busting up Google, Amazon, etc Teddy Roosevelt style.

    Originally posted by daCat View Post

    What's funny is how it just keeps getting worse. I asked on numerous occasions who offered a better plan to handle this virus (back in January, Feb) and got crickets for an answer. I'm not suggesting Trump has handled this all that well, but every move to contain it was met with resistance from the left back then. All I asked was who then, would have handled it better? Who has the better plan?

    You will need to show your homework here, mere conjecture won't feed the bulldog.
    Trump had a better plan then.

    The NSC's Pandemic Playbook that the Obama Administration left to the Trump Administration. The NSC devised the guide — officially called the Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents, but known colloquially as “the pandemic playbook” — across 2016. The project was driven by career civil servants as well as political appointees, aware that global leaders had initially fumbled their response to the 2014-2015 spread of Ebola and wanting to be sure that the next response to an epidemic was better handled.

    “Is there sufficient personal protective equipment for healthcare workers who are providing medical care?” the playbook instructs its readers, as one early decision that officials should address when facing a potential pandemic. “If YES: What are the triggers to signal exhaustion of supplies? Are additional supplies available? If NO: Should the Strategic National Stockpile release PPE to states?”
    April 3 2020, Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner scolded states for not building up their own stockpiles, saying that the "the notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile, it’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use."

    “The U.S. government will use all powers at its disposal to prevent, slow or mitigate the spread of an emerging infectious disease threat,” according to the playbook’s built-in “assumptions” about fighting future threats. “The American public will look to the U.S. government for action when multi-state or other significant events occur.”
    Trump on March 19, 2020 repeated his belief that the onus should be on the states -- and not the federal government -- to obtain needed equipment to combat the pandemic, saying his administration is not a “shipping clerk” for the supplies that could potentially save lives.

    On March 24, 2020, “It’s a two-way street,” Trump said. “They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.'”


    The guide further calls for a “unified message” on the federal response, in order to best manage the American public's questions and concerns. “Early coordination of risk communications through a single federal spokesperson is critical,” the playbook urges.
    The Coronavirus Task Force was created late January and Pence was named as Chair Feb 26th. They've had rotating speakers at the briefings. Pence and Fauci were getting too much shine at the briefing so Trump started showing up to them and talking. Then he said stupid things and they canceled them for a bit. Then they started doing them again. Then they questioned if they would even need the Task Force. They've had conflicting messages with the Task Force citing their guidelines for social distancing and the President encouraging people to protest the social distancing policies the governors put in place. This is not good communication policy.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

      Nationalizing everything is bullshit. But I'm absolutely okay with busting up Google, Amazon, etc Teddy Roosevelt style.



      Trump had a better plan then.



      April 3 2020, Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner scolded states for not building up their own stockpiles, saying that the "the notion of the federal stockpile was it’s supposed to be our stockpile, it’s not supposed to be states’ stockpiles that they then use."



      Trump on March 19, 2020 repeated his belief that the onus should be on the states -- and not the federal government -- to obtain needed equipment to combat the pandemic, saying his administration is not a “shipping clerk” for the supplies that could potentially save lives.

      On March 24, 2020, “It’s a two-way street,” Trump said. “They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, ‘Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.'”




      The Coronavirus Task Force was created late January and Pence was named as Chair Feb 26th. They've had rotating speakers at the briefings. Pence and Fauci were getting too much shine at the briefing so Trump started showing up to them and talking. Then he said stupid things and they canceled them for a bit. Then they started doing them again. Then they questioned if they would even need the Task Force. They've had conflicting messages with the Task Force citing their guidelines for social distancing and the President encouraging people to protest the social distancing policies the governors put in place. This is not good communication policy.
      I don't expect much from Trump. He can't open his cake hole without lying and self aggrandizing. I'm just not convinced anyone presented a better plan. And I'm also not convinced that destroying the economy has had much positive benefit.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by daCat View Post

        I don't expect much from Trump. He can't open his cake hole without lying and self aggrandizing. I'm just not convinced anyone presented a better plan. And I'm also not convinced that destroying the economy has had much positive benefit.
        Do you honestly think the economy is never coming back once we have a vaccine? It came back from 1929, it'll come back after Trump is executed for killing 90,000 americans.

        Gramps, you remember 1929-1931 - that was two fucking years - we're shutdown 2 fucking months and all your chicken littles are running around blaming Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Bill Gates, Dr. Fauci.

        In fact only a small section of the economy is closed - small brick and mortar businesses are closed - but the large companies and millions of small businesses selling on Amazon and Ebay are doing rip-roaring business. The business that are taking a beating are hotels, airlines, sprots, entertainment and tourism but even if you open up - people aren't going to travel and coming - so you can bitch at Obama but until we dems feel safe to come out and mingle with you filthy repubs, we're staying put
        Last edited by sctrojan; 05-17-2020, 05:23 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by daCat View Post

          What's funny is how it just keeps getting worse. I asked on numerous occasions who offered a better plan to handle this virus (back in January, Feb) and got crickets for an answer. I'm not suggesting Trump has handled this all that well, but every move to contain it was met with resistance from the left back then. All I asked was who then, would have handled it better? Who has the better plan?

          You will need to show your homework here, mere conjecture won't feed the bulldog.
          I gave you a long list that you ignored and deflected. Want to try again?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

            I gave you a long list that you ignored and deflected. Want to try again?
            Refresh my memory. I'm pretty busy.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by daCat View Post

              Refresh my memory. I'm pretty busy.
              The search function is right up there. Have fun.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by daCat View Post

                Refresh my memory. I'm pretty busy.
                If you can't see it, I can't help you.

                Also, LOL at daCat just making a blanket statement like that without knowing if it was true or not.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DPR View Post

                  If you can't see it, I can't help you.

                  Also, LOL at daCat just making a blanket statement like that without knowing if it was true or not.
                  Says the guy that continuously says Republicans bad, Democrats good.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

                    The search function is right up there. Have fun.
                    So you got nothing. Good to know.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by daCat View Post

                      So you got nothing. Good to know.
                      Sorry. Spent all day building a deck and didn’t have time to call you on the same tired bullshit for at least the third time. My sincerest apologies.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

                        Sorry. Spent all day building a deck and didn’t have time to call you on the same tired bullshit for at least the third time. My sincerest apologies.
                        I get it. No worries.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by daCat View Post

                          I don't expect much from Trump. He can't open his cake hole without lying and self aggrandizing. I'm just not convinced anyone presented a better plan. And I'm also not convinced that destroying the economy has had much positive benefit.
                          They had a plan that was better than what they actually did. The Trump Admin has yet to present a better plan than the one they were left.

                          The economy was always going to get destroyed to some extent. I contend that the Trump Admin made it worst by their lack of federally coordinated response with the states and a lack of a unified message. Instead they left it all up to the states then criticized what the states did. They told the states to get their own PPE leading states to bid against each other then the Feds bid against them and confiscated the PPE. Left it up to the states to set their own standards on how to deal with the pandemic then criticized the Governors for their orders. They published their own social distancing guidelines to stay at home and then Trump encouraged people to protest in groups against social distancing because it was hurting the economy. The Trump administration was telling people to stay home and saying we should open everything back up. What kind of mixed messaging bullshit is that?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by daCat View Post

                            So you got nothing. Good to know.
                            http://fvsports.com/forum/forum/poli...avirus/page109

                            There were plenty of suggestions for models to look at here, including a tweet from Senator Murphy on Feb 5 stating we were lacking in PPE and a testing plan, which turned out to be prophetic (though in hindsight seemed obvious). South Korea has 1/6th our population and like 1/500th of our deaths. They fought it with immediate aggressive testing and contact tracing along with social distancing. They were able to reopen fully a week ago, though they did have a new possible transmission case that they were tracing.

                            But none of this really matters because Trump had the Obama handbook that he was given that gave recommendations on aggressive testing, contact tracing and social distancing/lockdowns. Trump ignored all of it. He also ignored all intel reports for 2 months that could have given us a head start. Even today, he's suggesting it is a hoax and encouraging people to disobey his own administration's guidelines. His son Eric called it a hoax to win an election just yesterday on Fox News.

                            Because of this, most Republicans don't believe it is a real threat and are far less likely to wear masks or social distance themselves. They are joining each other in groups to protest with no masks, furthering the spread. Trump is egging them on.

                            Again, by simply doing nothing, Trump would be far better. Instead, he and Jared Boy Wonder Kushner are making this significantly worse and now we have by far and away the worst number of cases and deaths per capita than any other country. And here you are, defending it because (R).

                            Comment


                            • Search results are broken, but I can see you daCat:

                              daCat started a topic The Liar in Chief
                              in Politics
                              10-18-2014, 02:05 AM
                              is at it again.

                              http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administ...184611722.html

                              President Obama assured the American public that our country’s Ebola risk was extremely low, even after a federal government-funded study quietly found a nearly 25 percent chance of Ebola reaching the United States in September 2014.
                              SEE LESS | GO TO POST

                              Comment


                              • Another 2 million unemployment claims.

                                Comment

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