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  • #91
    Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

    Again where does the 7.5 year timeline come from? The majority of the early warnings something was wrong were mid to late 2005 and in 2006. If he wasn't aware of a problem in Jan 2001 and nobody else was either you can't say he ignored it for 7.5 years with any credibility.
    Bush had the power of the White House at his disposal. Again, his lack of curiosity screwed us. He was more interested in playing daddy's war games and seeing how many American soldiers he could kill than running the country. I can say he ignored it because looking back with hindsight, it was fucking obvious there was a bubble and multiple people in the Fed were talking about it several years before it popped. Did Bush start doing anything in 2005? No? Then what are we talking about here? He wasn't doing shit until summer 2008.

    Yup Bush made all those members of Congress vote for it. It's all his fault.
    Absolutely. He and Cheney went to the Hill and lied to Congress. They had Colin Powell go to the UN and lie. They all fucking lied.

    He only should be drug out into the street and beaten.
    Absolutely.

    Hillary meanwhile should have been made President after voting for the war.
    After being misled by people with more information. Most of the country was in favor of the war in 2002 because the Bush propaganda machine was working.

    Should Clinton be drug out into the street for her Iraq vote and excuses for torture? Under this rubric where do you land on our Libyan intervention? Libya where we go into that based on what pretense again? We spent what $896-1,100 million in October 2011 alone.
    LOL. Here is TTU arging like a billion dollars is supposed to mean something when the Iraq War cost upwards of $4 trillion. I suppose if you go out with your buddies and blow a $200 bar tab it should excuse your girl buying a summer home in the Hamptons and a helicopter to get there and putting it on the joint credit card.

    So should Obama have to face mob justice for his Libyan intervention? Or is this only a punishment Republicans get?
    I think Obama has stated one of his biggest regrets was not having a better plan for Libya post-Gaddafi. What I do know is that Obama didn't mislead the country into thinking Gaddafi had WMDs nor did we spend trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives with this intervention.

    I'm surprised at the GOP outrage over Libya. This would have been standard policy under Reagan. Only with less illegal gun running and less lying to Congress and fewer murdered nuns.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by daCat View Post
      For those who can read without wearing blue blockers, this is a fairly accurate outline of events from 2001 until the collapse:

      https://georgewbush-whitehouse.archi...081009-10.html
      Ah, the GOP whitewashing of Bush coming into full swing here.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by DPR View Post

        Ah, the GOP whitewashing of Bush coming into full swing here.
        It's a chronological list of events. You know, things that actually happened. Don't let a little word called "facts" get in the way of your narrative though.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by daCat View Post

          It's a chronological list of events. You know, things that actually happened. Don't let a little word called "facts" get in the way of your narrative though.
          I love it. Poor innocent Bush did everything he could to stop those evil Democrats but failed.

          He was president. He had his party in power of the House and Senate for 5 of his 8 years. The fact that he wasn't able to shepherd anything through that would have done anything is on him.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by DPR View Post

            Bush had the power of the White House at his disposal. Again, his lack of curiosity screwed us. He was more interested in playing daddy's war games and seeing how many American soldiers he could kill than running the country. I can say he ignored it because looking back with hindsight, it was fucking obvious there was a bubble and multiple people in the Fed were talking about it several years before it popped. Did Bush start doing anything in 2005? No? Then what are we talking about here? He wasn't doing shit until summer 2008.
            The power of the White House has limits. That's not what screwed us. You have offered no actual facts that show anything was ignored at the time. Actually the Bush Administration did try to do things as early as 2003 but were thwarted by Democrats. For details click below.

            Not Safe For Work!
            "For example, in 2003, the Bush administration, recognizing that the current regulators for Fannie and Freddie were inadequate, proposed that a new agency be created to regulate the GSE's. This new agency would have been tasked specifically with setting capital reserve requirements, (removing that authority from Congress), approving new lines business for the GSE's, and most importantly, evaluating the risk in their ballooning portfolios. It was in specific response to this regulatory effort that Barney Frank made his now infamous statement "These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." Had this new regulatory agency been put in place in 2003, it likely would have uncovered the accounting fraud regarding executive bonuses which was occurring at that time at Fannie Mae. This accounting scandal would later force the resignation of Franklin Raines and others executives.This new agency may also have slowed or stopped the further movement of the entire mortgage industry into subprime loans by exposing the full extent of the risks then taken by Fannie and Freddie, who at this time, controlled nearly half of all subprime loans being issued.

            Efforts to control GSE were thwarted by intense lobbying by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In April 2005, Secretary of the Treasury John Snow repeated call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America … Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." Then Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid rejected legislation saying " we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." A 2005 Republican effort for comprehensive GSE reform was threatened with filibuster by Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT).
            "

            During as late as 2008, Dodd denied reports claiming that these firms were in financial crisis. He called the firms "fundamentally strong," said they were in "sound situation" and "in good shape" and to "suggest they are in major trouble is not accurate." In early September, after the firms continued to report huge losses, Secretary Paulson announced a federal takeover of both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Dodd expressed skepticism of the action, which the Treasury estimated could cost as much as $200 billion.

            Dodd was the top recipient in Congress, followed by John Kerry, Barack Obama, then Hillary Clinton, of campaign funds from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac during 1989–2008.


            Absolutely. He and Cheney went to the Hill and lied to Congress. They had Colin Powell go to the UN and lie. They all fucking lied.
            Not Safe For Work!

            “[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

            “As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” — Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

            “The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998


            I have more as well. Are all these people lying? Are they not culpable? Seems like there was a sincerely held belief even in the Clinton Admin on that Iraq had WMDs and would use them. Which seems totally logically seeing how he gassed the Kurds and Iran before.

            After being misled by people with more information. Most of the country was in favor of the war in 2002 because the Bush propaganda machine was working.
            Hillary Clinton formerly FLOTUS who's husband had access to all the intelligence we had on Iraq yet she still voted for it anyway?

            Not Safe For Work!

            “Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002

            “(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. …And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War.” — John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

            “I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons…I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out.” — Clinton’s Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003



            LOL. Here is TTU arging like a billion dollars is supposed to mean something when the Iraq War cost upwards of $4 trillion. I suppose if you go out with your buddies and blow a $200 bar tab it should excuse your girl buying a summer home in the Hamptons and a helicopter to get there and putting it on the joint credit card.
            So when a Democrat spends money its fine. I don't know shit about the Hamptons or what you East Coast Liberal elites do.

            What is your take on LBJ given that he lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get the Gulf of Tonkin resolution and start the Vietnam War? Which ended up costing in the trillions and leading to thousands of US citizens dying? You gonna dismiss that all by saying well you like the other stuff he did like the Great Society?

            I think Obama has stated one of his biggest regrets was not having a better plan for Libya post-Gaddafi. What I do know is that Obama didn't mislead the country into thinking Gaddafi had WMDs nor did we spend trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives with this intervention.
            So Obama left Libya fucked up post-Gaddafi and he just gets to regret it without it being some sort of war crime? "On 19 December 2003, Gaddafi made a surprise announcement of his intention to dismantle Libya's WMD programs." So he gave it up under the Bush Administration. Which means Obama went in purely for regime change in 2011. Obama didn't even ask Congress about it. I suppose you can't mislead if you just do it.

            On 3 June 2011, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution, calling for a withdrawal of the United States military from the air and naval operations in and around Libya. It demanded that the administration provide, within 14 days, explanation of why the President Barack Obama did not come to Congress for permission to continue to take part in the mission.

            On 13 June, the House passed resolution prohibiting the use of funds for operations in the conflict, with 110 Democrats and 138 Republicans voting in favor.

            On 24 June, the House rejected Joint Resolution 68, which would have provided the Obama administration with authorization to continue military operations in Libya for up to one year.


            We only spent say a thousand million on taking out the Gaddafi regime change. Then we lost our Ambassador and other Americans there. Then we let it descend into a Civil War and let ISIL get a foothold which Obama apparently doesn't somehow own but really deeply regrets. Why no tell me how this ends question for Obama on Libya?

            I'm surprised at the GOP outrage over Libya. This would have been standard policy under Reagan. Only with less illegal gun running and less lying to Congress and fewer murdered nuns.
            I'm surprised at you giving Obama a pass over Libya. Considering it is the kind of policy under Reagan you would vehemently disagree with and want to drag people out into the street for. But I guess when Democrats do things you principles change.
            Last edited by TTURedRaider; 02-25-2020, 11:02 AM.

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