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  • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

    True, but that’s one of the biggest flaws of humanity. People are so willing to bend the knee to authority that they’ll believe anything, even if it makes absolutely no sense. see: the entire 20th century and the 21st century thus far.

    Uh, what? Most business people are so terrified of a law suit that they’re happily complying in public while begging the government for hand outs in private. They don’t want to reopen anything until the government is willing to give them the go ahead, because their exposure would be huge otherwise.

    They also have far less deaths than Italy, the UK, and several other countries who have imposed strict lockdown measures. Unless you think there’s something genetically unique about Scandinavia and want to take on all of the things that implies along with it, your argument sucks. Sorry bud, no arbitrary distinctions allowed.

    Roughly 1400 people in a country of 10 million, with a flattening curve. Again, it’s easy to say things like “A GORILLION TIMES HIGHER” and ignore the actual numbers.
    I'm as contrarian as the next person. But part of being an intelligent person is knowing what you don't know. I don't know shit about viruses, pestilences, and pandemics. Neither do you. So why not listen to Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, etc?

    Businesses should have liability concerns over this. Like nursing homes, those damn cruise ships, etc.

    Italy and the UK are have way more intentional travel which is how the virus spread. Most visisted destinations by international tourist arrivals circa 2018: 1.) France 89 million, 2.) Spain 83 million, 3.) United States 80 million, 4.) China 63 million, 5.) Italy 62 million. Meanwhile Sweden is around 7-8 million visitors.

    Alright you want actual numbers?
    Deaths in United States from Cov-19 (40,000) is what percentage of US population 2020 estimate (333,546,000) = 0.011992348881413659
    Deaths in Sweden from Cov-19 (1,333) is what percentage of Sweden's population (30 Jan 2020 census: 10,333,456) = 0.012899846866333973

    The increase of (0.00090749798492) to Sweden's death percentage seems small but it works out to 3,027 dead Americans. So you're saying lets sacrifice 3,027 more men, women, and children so we can have the more relaxed rules of Sweden? That is what you want to argue for?
    Last edited by TTURedRaider; 04-19-2020, 10:13 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

      I’m aware of that, but I’m also aware that bodies of water haven’t been a limiting factor in human travel for a few thousand years now.

      Okay so what about France, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy? What about the U.S, and Ireland who are in roughly the same ballpark? Either all of those countries are failing massively in executing their lockdowns (they’re not), or it’s a failed strategy. I wish more countries would do what Sweden has so we could get a more accurate picture, but unfortunately, they’ve chosen mass unemployment and extreme social controls over common sense.

      I’d also like to remind everyone that swine flu infected roughly 1.5 billion and killed just under 300k globally and none of these extreme measures took place. Weird.
      All of those countries do good international travel business. France, Spain, Italy, United States, and China are all in the top 5. Netherlands and Switzerland are top 11 in European travel receipts. Lots of people go to both UK and Ireland in one trip. Belgium shares a border with both France and the Netherlands so not hard for people visiting either to travel to it. Netherlands, Switzerland, Ireand, and Belgium all get more international visitors than Sweden according to the World Tourism Organization.
      Last edited by TTURedRaider; 04-19-2020, 10:34 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

        I'm as contrarian as the next person. But part of being an intelligent person is knowing what you don't know. I don't know shit about viruses, pestilences, and pandemics. Neither do you. So why not listen to Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, etc?

        Businesses should have liability concerns over this. Like nursing homes, those damn cruise ships, etc.

        Italy and the UK are have way more intentional travel which is how the virus spread. Most visisted destinations by international tourist arrivals circa 2018: 1.) France 89 million, 2.) Spain 83 million, 3.) United States 80 million, 4.) China 63 million, 5.) Italy 62 million. Meanwhile Sweden is around 7-8 million visitors.

        Alright you want actual numbers?
        Deaths in United States from Cov-19 (40,000) is what percentage of US population 2020 estimate (333,546,000) = 0.011992348881413659
        Deaths in Sweden from Cov-19 (1,333) is what percentage of Sweden's population (30 Jan 2020 census: 10,333,456) = 0.012899846866333973

        The increase of (0.00090749798492) to Sweden's death percentage seems small but it works out to 3,027 dead Americans. So you're saying lets sacrifice 3,027 more men, women, and children so we can have the more relaxed rules of Sweden? That is what you want to argue for?
        I don’t know shit about intelligence gathering or national security either, but I didn’t listen to the experts following 9/11 and called them on their bullshit the whole way. I was called a traitor, soft, an idiot, you name it. Oh, and remind me how temporary those security and surveillance measures were again? Oh right, people are still getting molested in airports, our communications are still being constantly monitored, and people are still being detained indefinitely without trial. Your constitutional rights basically only exist on paper at this point, and can and will be suspended if the government classifies you as a threat to national security.

        Okay why? And how far are we taking this exactly? Because tons of people lose their job every year for not coming to work when they’re sick with contagious diseases and nobody seems to give a shit. Well, until now where people are suddenly pretending to give a shit.

        Considering the economic impact of this will almost certainly result in more deaths? Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying, but that won’t resonate with you. Do you know why? Because you aren’t being told 24/7 by the news media and government that massive spikes in unemployment correlate with spikes in suicide, drug overdose, and violent crime. If you were, you’d be screaming to open the country back up. Unfortunately, that isn’t the narrative right now. The narrative seems to be shut up, stay inside, and do what the government tells you to do until they say you’re allowed to live in a free society again. If only I knew where I’d heard this before.

        Mark my words: This is the first time, but it won’t be the last. Routine lockdowns will be the new normal going forward, probably happening once every year or two for months at a time. Before long, it will become something people just joke about in the same way they joke about the CIA listening to their phone calls. That’s how liberty dies after all, blind compliance from an ignorant and scared public that would rather resign itself to control than risk the consequences of open defiance.

        Oh, and one more thing, how can you call yourself a contrarian? You’re like top 3 among posters here in the compliance department.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

          I don’t know shit about intelligence gathering or national security either, but I didn’t listen to the experts following 9/11 and called them on their bullshit the whole way. I was called a traitor, soft, an idiot, you name it. Oh, and remind me how temporary those security and surveillance measures were again? Oh right, people are still getting molested in airports, our communications are still being constantly monitored, and people are still being detained indefinitely without trial. Your constitutional rights basically only exist on paper at this point, and can and will be suspended if the government classifies you as a threat to national security.

          Okay why? And how far are we taking this exactly? Because tons of people lose their job every year for not coming to work when they’re sick with contagious diseases and nobody seems to give a shit. Well, until now where people are suddenly pretending to give a shit.

          Considering the economic impact of this will almost certainly result in more deaths? Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying, but that won’t resonate with you. Do you know why? Because you aren’t being told 24/7 by the news media and government that massive spikes in unemployment correlate with spikes in suicide, drug overdose, and violent crime. If you were, you’d be screaming to open the country back up. Unfortunately, that isn’t the narrative right now. The narrative seems to be shut up, stay inside, and do what the government tells you to do until they say you’re allowed to live in a free society again. If only I knew where I’d heard this before.

          Mark my words: This is the first time, but it won’t be the last. Routine lockdowns will be the new normal going forward, probably happening once every year or two for months at a time. Before long, it will become something people just joke about in the same way they joke about the CIA listening to their phone calls. That’s how liberty dies after all, blind compliance from an ignorant and scared public that would rather resign itself to control than risk the consequences of open defiance.

          Oh, and one more thing, how can you call yourself a contrarian? You’re like top 3 among posters here in the compliance department.
          I've never been molested at an airport I just walk through the metal detector then gather back up my things. Just like before 9/11. I'll sacrifice not carrying on board liquids and take off my shoes if it means the plane won't blow up.

          They were monitoring our communications before. 330+ million they can only monitor it by key words etc unless they really focus on your ass. Hell Google etc are even more creepy about it. Hey remember this day last year? You were here at this latitude and longitude. O great thanks google for tracking my every movement. Also thanks Facebook for reminding me how my grandmother died on this day 5 years ago how helpful. But remember we give them that information.

          Because its a novel virus that is more infectious than the seasonal flu with no vaccine or treatment for it.



          You can't possibly know what will result in more deaths. We are trying to mitigate harm. There is a real cost to any decision taken on this. If we let more people go out get the virus spread it by a factor of 3 and that will lead to more death overwhelming our healthcare system. If we tell people to stay inside that leads to spike in unemployment, physical domestic abuse, suicide, etc. They made the alcohol stores essential businesses just so the alcoholics wouldn't all go into withdraw and get the shakes. There is no good solution that doesn't cause harm in some way.

          I don't think somehow this is the new normal forever. We are trying to buy time to learn about the virus while halting its spread. Best practices to stop it from spreading and for treatment. Also trying to develop both vaccines and therapeutics to treat it. All sorts of clinical trials and testing are going on right now.

          I'm complying right now because it seems the prudent course. What would you suggest doing? Sweden like restrictions and letting a few thousand more people die? Should I just be okay with my grandmother (Silent Generation) dying or my parents dying because they are Boomers? My nephew who has to take breathing treatments normally? Should they all be sacrificed so we can open back up the country? What would you like to be doing that you can't be because they are impacting your liberty? What would you like to be doing that you are being prevented from doing?
          Last edited by TTURedRaider; 04-19-2020, 11:20 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

            I've never been molested at an airport I just walk through the metal detector then gather back up my things. Just like before 9/11. I'll sacrifice not carrying on board liquids and take off my shoes if it means the plane won't blow up.

            They were monitoring our communications before. 330+ million they can only monitor it by key words etc unless they really focus on your ass. Hell Google etc are even more creepy about it. Hey remember this day last year? You were here at this latitude and longitude. O great thanks google for tracking my every movement. Also thanks Facebook for reminding me how my grandmother died on this day 5 years ago how helpful. But remember we give them that information.

            Because its a novel virus that is more infectious than the seasonal flu with no vaccine or treatment for it.



            You can't possibly know what will result in more deaths. We are trying to mitigate harm. There is a real cost to any decision taken on this. If we let more people go out get the virus spread it by a factor of 3 and that will lead to more death overwhelming our healthcare system. If we tell people to stay inside that leads to spike in unemployment, physical domestic abuse, suicide, etc. They made the alcohol stores essential businesses just so the alcoholics wouldn't all go into withdraw and get the shakes. There is no good solution that doesn't cause harm in some way.

            I don't think somehow this is the new normal forever. We are trying to buy time to learn about the virus while halting its spread. Best practices to stop it from spreading and for treatment. Also trying to develop both vaccines and therapeutics to treat it. All sorts of clinical trials and testing are going on right now.

            I'm complying right now because it seems the prudent course. What would you suggest doing? Sweden like restrictions and letting a few thousand more people die? Should I just be okay with my grandmother (Silent Generation) dying or my parents dying because they are Boomers? My nephew who has to take breathing treatments normally? Should they all be sacrificed so we can open back up the country? What would you like to be doing that you can't be because they are impacting your liberty? What would you like to be doing that you are being prevented from doing?
            I’m not even going to respond to this first paragraph,

            Except it wasn’t legal, and you’re not making a point by saying corporate entities are just as guilty.

            Swine flu.

            You don’t need to be a mathematician to figure out that if only a fraction of a percent of the 30 million people who are unemployed suffer one of those fates in the coming months, it will make the added deaths from covid-19 seem minuscule. Sad part is, it’ll probably be a lot more than that.

            Okay. Just remember that people shared that sentiment about a lot of things at one point in time. Income taxes, unpegging the dollar from gold, outsourcing, suspension of civil liberties, mass surveillance, etc etc. Governments don’t give back power without a fight once they’ve seized it from the people.

            No, you’re complying because you don’t have a choice, just like I am. Don’t pretend for a second that you could defy these orders even if you wanted to, or that what you think or feel has anything to do with it. It doesn’t. The real question is, what do you plan on doing about it? How many times are you going to comply with being told to stay in your home against your will? Or do you just plan on justifying your existence for the rest of your life as the powers that be slowly clamp down on you?

            As far as what’s being impacted, I think that depends on what state you live in. In some places, people can’t go in public without a mask without facing severe fines and possible jail time. Thankfully, I don’t live in one of those hell holes. And to answer your question as directly as I can, yes, I am okay with people dying for the sake of liberty. That’s kind of why we have a country to start with, because our founders made the decision that there are worse things than death and started a revolution.

            Comment


            • Nothin' more 'Merican than dyin' for liburteh!


              Freedom is fucking great until you have to depend on selfish retards to be responsible.

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              • Originally posted by Nash View Post
                Nothin' more 'Merican than dyin' for liburteh!


                Freedom is fucking great until you have to depend on selfish retards to be responsible.
                I have dipshit family members in Carolina who are spouting the liberties/freedoms bullshit (mind you, these are people who can work from home and have no reason to be bitching).

                I totally get it if someone has lost their job, the gov't (specifically in Ohio) has done a shit job with unemployment benefits, so they are naturally and understandably getting worried. But for everyone else this just seems like an easy thing to do.

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                • https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...tine-protests/

                  To the shock of absolutely nobody, far-right groups with deep pocketed backers are pushing the anti-quarantine protests in coordinated style in 5 states and counting. Their web domains and Facebook group postings are virtually identical except for the state name. All from a central group pretending to be a grassroots movement locally.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ivegostdacityblues View Post
                    But hey, with a simple 21 he drive you can get from Stockholm to London!
                    Illinois is basically neighbors with Oregon!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                      Someone doesn’t have any experience with Sodexo, apparently. I don’t know what else to say other than that I’m happy for you.

                      No, it’s bullshit both ways, you just haven’t been sufficiently brow beaten for your ignorance when it comes to rural white people. We can trade stats back and forth for a bit if you want, but you’d be better off just not painting with such a broad brush and moving on.

                      Sodexo makes Republicans mock healthy eating habits of Americans?

                      And I grew up in rural America. My first home was on a pig farm 40 miles from any town with a population over 5,000. I was born into it - molded by it - I didn't meet my first minority until I was already a man.

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                      • Originally posted by DPR View Post


                        Sodexo makes Republicans mock healthy eating habits of Americans?

                        And I grew up in rural America. My first home was on a pig farm 40 miles from any town with a population over 5,000. I was born into it - molded by it - I didn't meet my first minority until I was already a man.
                        Again, clearly no experience. I’m happy for you. Live long and prosper.

                        +1 for the Bane quote.

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                        • Originally posted by Nash View Post
                          Nothin' more 'Merican than dyin' for liburteh!


                          Freedom is fucking great until you have to depend on selfish retards to be responsible.
                          Limiting freedom has totally made us better, guys!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                            Limiting freedom has totally made us better, guys!
                            So why do you want to go around killing people you fucking retard?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by sctrojan View Post

                              So why do you want to go around killing people you fucking retard?
                              ???

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                                ???
                                You want the freedom to walk freely and infect people during a pandemic.

                                Comment

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