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  • Originally posted by daCat View Post

    1: The US does NOT have the worst outbreak in the world. Stop saying that, it's an outright lie.
    1.) The US has more reported Coronavirus deaths than any other country. China probably has more but we have the most reported.


    2: Dr Fauci has said numerous times we didn't have enough information from the get go in large part because the Chinese govt was withholding far too much information. Hind sight tells us plenty. But go ahead and name me one politician who came out early with what would have presented a proper preparation and response. Hint: You're going to need to back that up.
    2.) Yes, China's lack of transparency hurt our response. The Trump Administration's actions have limited our ability to have a proper preparation and response.

    Examples of some Trump administration policy failures:

    - Threw out the “Playbook for Early Response to High-Consequence Emerging Infectious Disease Threats and Biological Incidents.” after being briefed on it in 2017.

    - The Trump Administration ended the pandemic early warning program, PREDICT, which trained scientists in China and other countries to identify viruses that had the potential to turn into pandemics. According to the Los Angeles Times, “field work ceased when funding ran out in September,” two months before COVID-19 emerged in Wuhan Province, China. On April 1, 2020 USAID used emergency powers to reboot the program.

    - February 5, 2020: HHS Secretary Alex Azar requests $2 billion to “buy respirator masks and other supplies for a depleted federal stockpile of emergency medical equipment.” He is rebuffed by Trump and the White House OMB who eventually send Congress a $500 million request weeks later.

    - March 20, 2020: At an April 2nd White House Press Conference, President Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner who was made ad hoc point man for the coronavirus response said that on this date he began working with Rear Admiral John Polowczyk to “build a team” that would handle the logistics and supply chain for providing medical supplies to the states. This suggestion was first made by former Trump Administration officials January 28th.
    Just public messaging wise for ten weeks President Trump downplayed the threat of and ignored warnings about the potential severity of COVID-19 with a series of lies, exaggerations, and outright fabrications. I don't have to come up with another politician who came out early with what would have presented a proper preparation and response. This is not an either or situation. It's not either Trump's response or a perfect response a plethora of other options exist.

    3: Trump is always full of shit, but much of what he was doing early on was attempting to calm the public, who the media was whipping into a frenzy with all manner of speculations- most of which were complete bullshit.
    3.) Just because he's always been full of shit doesn't make it okay. The Press's failings don't justify him being full of shit either.

    4: Democrat leadership was too busy calling him a xenophobe for "over-reacting".
    4.) Trump said Democrats “loudly criticized and protested” his announced travel restrictions, and that they “called me a racist because I made that decision.” Trump is overstating Democratic opposition. None of the party’s congressional leaders and none of the Democratic candidates running for president have directly criticized that decision, though at least two Democrats have.

    5: He didn't dissolve shit, he consolidated agencies to operate under simpler management. There is likely a good argument to be made regarding what kind of moron was left in charge, but that same thing could be said about the admin who left emergency supplies at dangerously low levels.
    5.) He didn't consolidate agencies. It was a National Security Council unit for Global Health Security and Biodefense. I think there is a likely a good argument to be made for a for having a Global Health Security and Biodefense NSC unit. Which focuses on preparedness against infectious diseases, including leading the response in case of a pandemic and strategies for defense against biological weapons. Just in the 2000s we've had SARS, MERS, H1N1, Zika, Ebola, and now Covid-19. Also if China is fooling around with Coronavirus in a lab in Wuhan wouldn't a unit for Biodefense be prudent?

    Republicans in Congress would not authorize money to replenish national emergency supplies while Obama was in office. Also Trump who has been in office for 3 years did not replenish national emergency supplies instead had been reducing CDC etc funding.

    6: Apparently you can't or don't read much of this forum, because Trump is the culprit behind Aunt Patsy's toothache and Uncle Jake's bunions. He also kicked a dog and set a cat on fire.
    ​​​​
    6.) He is the President of the United States of America. That comes with responsibility for how the federal government performs during a pandemic which has led to the death of 20,000+ US citizens. President Truman said, "The buck stops here." President Trump said, "I take no responsibility."

    7: His claiming "absolute authority" is mind numbingly dumb. It reeks of desperation, fear, and huge amounts of stress. I would venture to say the pressure is getting to him.
    7.) But it's fine because President Trump *check notes* has always been full of shit. What bad could come from a President who is full of shit, takes zero responsibility, but claims absolute power? Shouldn't we really focus on the Press or Democrats?
    Last edited by TTURedRaider; 04-14-2020, 11:56 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by daCat View Post

      Of course I have opinions as to what would have been better, having the luxury of hindsight. But the truth is this is all centered on difficult decisions. And the balance between saving some people's lives vs sacrificing the entire economy is getting more difficult every day. And worse, no matter which decision you make, for many, it will be wrong. To quote George Clooney from his role in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou, "We're in a tough spot" is putting the decision maker's position lightly.

      But personally, I think, moving forward, we have to start opening the country back up. Starting with areas that have been the least affected. Monitored closely in the event of a renewed outbreak. Cities are of course the most affected and should only consider this after showing meaningful declines in the numbers of infected. Again, monitored very closely.
      We need more testing for that. But asking about testing is a "nasty question".

      Comment


      • Originally posted by daCat View Post

        Some knives have 2 edges.
        See what I'm talking about, md21 ?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

          He’ll ignore it just like he ignored mine.
          You do know how the senate and house work, right? Do you remember giving people shit about AOC and how she really has no power being only 1 seat and not being the head of a committee or speaker? Just pointing out the hypocrisy here, we can move along now. I actually agree the way this has been handled has been a clusterfuck, the hypocrisy is infuriating though. Like this, or people on here giving Dynasty shit about blowing this out of proportion (in this very thread) because he was posting daily reports.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

            1.) The US has more reported Coronavirus deaths than any other country. China probably has more but we have the most reported.




            2.) Yes, China's lack of transparency hurt our response. The Trump Administration's actions have limited our ability to have a proper preparation and response.

            Examples of some Trump administration policy failures:



            Just public messaging wise for ten weeks President Trump downplayed the threat of and ignored warnings about the potential severity of COVID-19 with a series of lies, exaggerations, and outright fabrications. I don't have to come up with another politician who came out early with what would have presented a proper preparation and response. This is not an either or situation. It's not either Trump's response or a perfect response a plethora of other options exist.



            3.) Just because he's always been full of shit doesn't make it okay. The Press's failings don't justify him being full of shit either.



            4.) Trump said Democrats “loudly criticized and protested” his announced travel restrictions, and that they “called me a racist because I made that decision.” Trump is overstating Democratic opposition. None of the party’s congressional leaders and none of the Democratic candidates running for president have directly criticized that decision, though at least two Democrats have.



            5.) He didn't consolidate agencies. It was a National Security Council unit for Global Health Security and Biodefense. I think there is a likely a good argument to be made for a for having a Global Health Security and Biodefense NSC unit. Which focuses on preparedness against infectious diseases, including leading the response in case of a pandemic and strategies for defense against biological weapons. Just in the 2000s we've had SARS, MERS, H1N1, Zika, Ebola, and now Covid-19. Also if China is fooling around with Coronavirus in a lab in Wuhan wouldn't a unit for Biodefense be prudent?

            Republicans in Congress would not authorize money to replenish national emergency supplies while Obama was in office. Also Trump who has been in office for 3 years did not replenish national emergency supplies instead had been reducing CDC etc funding.


            ​​​​
            6.) He is the President of the United States of America. That comes with responsibility for how the federal government performs during a pandemic which has led to the death of 20,000+ US citizens. President Truman said, "The buck stops here." President Trump said, "I take no responsibility."



            7.) But it's fine because President Trump *check notes* has always been full of shit. What bad could come from a President who is full of shit, takes zero responsibility, but claims absolute power? Shouldn't we really focus on the Press or Democrats?
            Of course we have the most REPORTED deaths.

            1) China is lying their ass off about how many died.

            2) We're counting deaths differently.

            3) We have more citizens than all of Western Europe, Canada, and Japan Combined. Do we have more deaths than those countries combined?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

              You do know how the senate and house work, right? Do you remember giving people shit about AOC and how she really has no power being only 1 seat and not being the head of a committee or speaker? Just pointing out the hypocrisy here, we can move along now. I actually agree the way this has been handled has been a clusterfuck, the hypocrisy is infuriating though. Like this, or people on here giving Dynasty shit about blowing this out of proportion (in this very thread) because he was posting daily reports.
              Wut?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                Of course we have the most REPORTED deaths.

                1) China is lying their ass off about how many died.

                2) We're counting deaths differently.

                3) We have more citizens than all of Western Europe, Canada, and Japan Combined. Do we have more deaths than those countries combined?
                We don't have more citizens than all of Western Europe, Canada and Japan combined. They have about 360 million while we have around 330 million.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post
                  You do know how the senate and house work, right? Do you remember giving people shit about AOC and how she really has no power being only 1 seat and not being the head of a committee or speaker? Just pointing out the hypocrisy here, we can move along now. I actually agree the way this has been handled has been a clusterfuck, the hypocrisy is infuriating though. Like this, or people on here giving Dynasty shit about blowing this out of proportion (in this very thread) because he was posting daily reports.
                  Do try and keep up with daCat's bullshit and don't excuse it.

                  He asked for someone with power who had a better plan. I listed several countries. He discounted them because they aren't the US. MD showed a federally elected politician. That get's discounted because they don't have power.

                  Who counts then? It's the same bullshit with "show me democratic socialism that counts". The question gets so qualified that you literally can't answer it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

                    Do try and keep up with daCat's bullshit and don't excuse it.

                    He asked for someone with power who had a better plan. I listed several countries. He discounted them because they aren't the US. MD showed a federally elected politician. That get's discounted because they don't have power.

                    Who counts then? It's the same bullshit with "show me democratic socialism that counts". The question gets so qualified that you literally can't answer it.
                    1) I'm not so sure that having a plan vs no plan means they had better plans. They just had a plan.

                    2) My interpretation of what DaCat is implying, is that the people who had the power to do something...you know, these people.

                    http://www.house.gov/leadership or these people
                    http://www.senate.gov/senators/leadership.htm

                    Didn't produce any actionable plans. I sure as shit don't recall them doing anything besides attacking each other and the President.

                    In my opinion, DaCat is partially wrong because it was clear the US didn't have a plan whike European nations had a plan. Whether their plan was good, eh...it was better than no plan, but the lingering effects aren't known. He's partially right because none of our leadership was really doing anything besides the blame game.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DPR View Post

                      We don't have more citizens than all of Western Europe, Canada and Japan combined. They have about 360 million while we have around 330 million.
                      So fucking what, I was off by 30 million. We have less total deaths than Europe alone despite having almost twice the total population. It was a stupid and poorly thought out defense by TTU.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                        1) I'm not so sure that having a plan vs no plan means they had better plans. They just had a plan.

                        2) My interpretation of what DaCat is implying, is that the people who had the power to do something...you know, these people.

                        http://www.house.gov/leadership or these people
                        http://www.senate.gov/senators/leadership.htm

                        Didn't produce any actionable plans. I sure as shit don't recall them doing anything besides attacking each other and the President.

                        In my opinion, DaCat is partially wrong because it was clear the US didn't have a plan whike European nations had a plan. Whether their plan was good, eh...it was better than no plan, but the lingering effects aren't known. He's partially right because none of our leadership was really doing anything besides the blame game.
                        They had a plan, it was Insider trading and it was executed flawlessly.

                        Politicians don't fuck around when it comes to their own money, just yours.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post



                          2) My interpretation of what DaCat is implying, is that the people who had the power to do something...you know, these people.

                          http://www.house.gov/leadership or these people
                          http://www.senate.gov/senators/leadership.htm

                          Clearly the 2nd group overruled the 1st group - because President Mike Pence would have definitely had a better response than Trump

                          I am 100% sure President Mike Pence wouldn't be talking about his ratings or blaming Obama for tackling the h1n1 in 2009 at the same time as the imploding economy and it being Obama's 1st year as president. This guy has been president for 3.5 years now.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                            1) I'm not so sure that having a plan vs no plan means they had better plans. They just had a plan.

                            2) My interpretation of what DaCat is implying, is that the people who had the power to do something...you know, these people.

                            http://www.house.gov/leadership or these people
                            http://www.senate.gov/senators/leadership.htm

                            Didn't produce any actionable plans. I sure as shit don't recall them doing anything besides attacking each other and the President.

                            In my opinion, DaCat is partially wrong because it was clear the US didn't have a plan whike European nations had a plan. Whether their plan was good, eh...it was better than no plan, but the lingering effects aren't known. He's partially right because none of our leadership was really doing anything besides the blame game.
                            You realize that Congress only has oversight authority and isn't being briefed daily on what is happening, right?

                            Trump has the entire federal government at his disposal. He gets a daily intel report on anything and everything. Congress doesn't get those. Schumer has maybe 50 people on his staff. Trump has 400 just in the EOP alone and thousands more in the agencies that report directly to his office.

                            Comment


                            • Cristina Cuomo, wife of CNN anchor Chris Cuomo, is diagnosed with coronavirus

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                              • Originally posted by DSMoneypit View Post

                                1) I'm not so sure that having a plan vs no plan means they had better plans. They just had a plan.

                                2) My interpretation of what DaCat is implying, is that the people who had the power to do something...you know, these people.

                                http://www.house.gov/leadership or these people
                                http://www.senate.gov/senators/leadership.htm

                                Didn't produce any actionable plans. I sure as shit don't recall them doing anything besides attacking each other and the President.

                                In my opinion, DaCat is partially wrong because it was clear the US didn't have a plan whike European nations had a plan. Whether their plan was good, eh...it was better than no plan, but the lingering effects aren't known. He's partially right because none of our leadership was really doing anything besides the blame game.
                                Don't act like the executive in the United States doesn't have significantly more power in times like these than Congress.

                                Don't act like Trump didn't disband Obama's Pandemic response framework.

                                Of course Congress isn't blameless, but the President(and to a lesser extent governors) are primarily responsible in situations like these because of how emergency powers are set up and how Congress has ceded the power of agencies to the executive branch.
                                Last edited by General_Grantlocks; 04-16-2020, 05:04 AM.

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