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  • PBS
    started a topic Why White Privilege is a Canard

    Why White Privilege is a Canard

    Interesting article. Id like to get everyone's thoughts...


    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...campaign=Smith

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Last edited by PBS; 11-26-2018, 07:00 PM.

  • Canedude08
    replied
    Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

    Tell that to the Asian students suing Harvard. When they win, and they're going to by the way, the demographic make up of campuses is going to change pretty quickly. I don't really have to do much arguing here, I'll simply sit back, wait, and say I told you so later.

    Cool, so we agree. All I really care about is qualified low income students being treated fairly and receiving aid regardless of their immutable characteristics. I don't particularly care what the consequences of that are, just like I don't think we should have cared about economic impact of ending slavery. It's wrong, and it has to stop. Period.

    As far as the rest of your post goes, the only examples I've personally observed are government jobs. In the private sector, I think there's a fair amount of research that shows blacks are at a disadvantage. I don't know of any way to solve that without quotas (which are stupid), but if you have any ideas, I'm more than happy to read them.
    The funny part about those Asian kids winning is that they are going to eventually cripple those schools(Well as much as you can cripple an Ivy League institution). If college admissions becomes merely about who can game the system via grades and test scores, then college loses one of the most important(and useful elements of it): the concept of being around different people, differing viewpoints. College isn't just about gaining knowledge, it's about learning how to deal with people.

    I remember having a conversation with a friend of mine who is an admissions counselor at my alma mater, and she said it perfectly "Asian kids are talented, on average their grades and test scores are significantly higher than everyone else. There's only one problem: The variety just isn't there. It's almost like they are raised to be part of an assembly line. Some of that is culture, individuality isn't a big parenting theme in a lot of Asian countries. I could go to ten White, Black or Latino kids and ask about what they want to do after college, and get a variety of answers. You want that when you are building a class. You want a variety of people, who have similar academic backgrounds, but different backgrounds, plans, etc. If I were to go to 10 Asian kids, and ask the same question I'm going to hear 8-9 Pre Med/Pre Law answers, with one saying something different. The ironic part is that one individual is the one that has the best chance of getting in."

    College admissions can't be merely "Take all the great scores, and there is little room to take anyone else". I want to see these talented young people get a chance, but the great kid that comes from inner city Chicago or from Appalachia that didn't grade grub, and didn't have a family that could afford to put them in college courses during their HS years should also get some consideration. Remember the following: Asian-American applicants are accepted into elite academic institutions at a rate of 5 TIMES their representation in the population at large. There shouldn't be a quota under any circumstance, but we also have to remember that there are only so many spots. Harvard turns down oodles, and I mean oodles of 4.0 GPA, perfect SAT people every single year. The same perception that you see with a lot of Asian-Americans, is also the same thing you see with a lot of upper middle class white kids, ala Abigail Fisher. in other words, kids that have been stage coached, and managed to a certain point, and get turned down, BECAUSE they aren't authentic. When you are reviewing applications and you see the same exact extra curricular activities and the like, it starts to be a blur. But when you see the kid that worked 2 jobs because his mother has MS and can't work at all, that's the kid that gets a bit of a rub.
    Last edited by Canedude08; 11-22-2018, 10:22 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tOSUfanboi2
    replied
    Originally posted by TTURedRaider View Post

    It is a stand in for class.

    People can be advantaged in some ways but not in others. It depends. A person's white skin will not be an asset to them in every conceivable place or situation.
    Which is unacceptable. Any attempt to find truth or create solutions that doesnt involve calling things by their proper name is ultimayely doomed to failure. Call it suburban privilege, rich privilege, economic privilege, anything really, but assigning it to an entire race when tens of millions of people of said race in this country alone are in essentially the same boat is bullshit.

    I mean shit, people always want to bitch about normalizing racism, but here's a perfect example and you're all just shrugging your shoulders.

    Leave a comment:


  • tOSUfanboi2
    replied
    Originally posted by Canedude08 View Post

    The college admission thing is such a load of crap, it's almost comical. It's not like in most cases a totally unqualified minority is getting in over a shoo-in white candidate. It's usually two candidates that are extremely similar, and there is a tiebreaker. Much like "Your father went to school here", or "Your family knows one of the admissions counselors", tiebreakers that go overwhelmingly to white candidates. Ever notice how no one says diddly squat about legacy or development admits? I wonder why. Maybe because it's rare, and I mean incredibly rare for a minority to ride that to admission at a historically white institution.

    Should AA be economics based? Yes, and I've said that multiple times on this board over the years. The kid in inner city Chicago and the kid in Appalachia are fighting the same battle. I doubt that if the GOP attacked AA from that angle, it would face any opposition. Middle class minorities don't really have a need for AA for they have the resources to compete with their white peers. Why won't conservatives do it? Because it removes a convenient boogeyman, and it shows beyond a doubt that poor whites are no better than their black counterparts. That's been a big part of conservative ideology for decades. Minorities getting more than their "Fair" share has been a rallying cry for mediocre white people for decades, despite evidence that the typical minority that does find success does it mostly on their own. It is a soothing lullaby to those that refuse to admit that they are crap. It's easier to say "That black person got it because they are black" than to say "Odds are he earned that spot, and I should take notes".
    Tell that to the Asian students suing Harvard. When they win, and they're going to by the way, the demographic make up of campuses is going to change pretty quickly. I don't really have to do much arguing here, I'll simply sit back, wait, and say I told you so later.

    Cool, so we agree. All I really care about is qualified low income students being treated fairly and receiving aid regardless of their immutable characteristics. I don't particularly care what the consequences of that are, just like I don't think we should have cared about economic impact of ending slavery. It's wrong, and it has to stop. Period.

    As far as the rest of your post goes, the only examples I've personally observed are government jobs. In the private sector, I think there's a fair amount of research that shows blacks are at a disadvantage. I don't know of any way to solve that without quotas (which are stupid), but if you have any ideas, I'm more than happy to read them.

    Leave a comment:


  • daCat
    replied
    Originally posted by Canedude08 View Post

    The college admission thing is such a load of crap, it's almost comical. It's not like in most cases a totally unqualified minority is getting in over a shoo-in white candidate. It's usually two candidates that are extremely similar, and there is a tiebreaker. Much like "Your father went to school here", or "Your family knows one of the admissions counselors", tiebreakers that go overwhelmingly to white candidates. Ever notice how no one says diddly squat about legacy or development admits? I wonder why. Maybe because it's rare, and I mean incredibly rare for a minority to ride that to admission at a historically white institution.

    Should AA be economics based? Yes, and I've said that multiple times on this board over the years. The kid in inner city Chicago and the kid in Appalachia are fighting the same battle. I doubt that if the GOP attacked AA from that angle, it would face any opposition. Middle class minorities don't really have a need for AA for they have the resources to compete with their white peers. Why won't conservatives do it? Because it removes a convenient boogeyman, and it shows beyond a doubt that poor whites are no better than their black counterparts. That's been a big part of conservative ideology for decades. Minorities getting more than their "Fair" share has been a rallying cry for mediocre white people for decades, despite evidence that the typical minority that does find success does it mostly on their own. It is a soothing lullaby to those that refuse to admit that they are crap. It's easier to say "That black person got it because they are black" than to say "Odds are he earned that spot, and I should take notes".
    I'm not sure where you get your conservative views, but as a conservative, I can swear with absolute certainty they don't match mine.

    Leave a comment:


  • md21
    replied
    Originally posted by Canedude08 View Post

    The college admission thing is such a load of crap, it's almost comical. It's not like in most cases a totally unqualified minority is getting in over a shoo-in white candidate. It's usually two candidates that are extremely similar, and there is a tiebreaker. Much like "Your father went to school here", or "Your family knows one of the admissions counselors", tiebreakers that go overwhelmingly to white candidates. Ever notice how no one says diddly squat about legacy or development admits? I wonder why. Maybe because it's rare, and I mean incredibly rare for a minority to ride that to admission at a historically white institution.

    Should AA be economics based? Yes, and I've said that multiple times on this board over the years. The kid in inner city Chicago and the kid in Appalachia are fighting the same battle. I doubt that if the GOP attacked AA from that angle, it would face any opposition. Middle class minorities don't really have a need for AA for they have the resources to compete with their white peers. Why won't conservatives do it? Because it removes a convenient boogeyman, and it shows beyond a doubt that poor whites are no better than their black counterparts. That's been a big part of conservative ideology for decades. Minorities getting more than their "Fair" share has been a rallying cry for mediocre white people for decades, despite evidence that the typical minority that does find success does it mostly on their own. It is a soothing lullaby to those that refuse to admit that they are crap. It's easier to say "That black person got it because they are black" than to say "Odds are he earned that spot, and I should take notes".
    People might be surprised to find out AA has been banned for years in California.

    Leave a comment:


  • Canedude08
    replied
    Originally posted by DPR View Post

    Completely depends. But yes, in a lot of cases it helps to be a black or Latino minority.



    Is there any proof that state governments over-hire black or Latino minorities?



    I say whatever I feel like and rarely get in trouble. Perhaps you should ask yourself why saying what you feel like makes you look like such an asshole to others.

    You're skipping over interactions with law enforcement. That's kind of a big one. And if you're black and in a smaller town, your dating pool is substantially smaller as people are still racist as hell when it comes to interracial dating/marriage.
    The college admission thing is such a load of crap, it's almost comical. It's not like in most cases a totally unqualified minority is getting in over a shoo-in white candidate. It's usually two candidates that are extremely similar, and there is a tiebreaker. Much like "Your father went to school here", or "Your family knows one of the admissions counselors", tiebreakers that go overwhelmingly to white candidates. Ever notice how no one says diddly squat about legacy or development admits? I wonder why. Maybe because it's rare, and I mean incredibly rare for a minority to ride that to admission at a historically white institution.

    Should AA be economics based? Yes, and I've said that multiple times on this board over the years. The kid in inner city Chicago and the kid in Appalachia are fighting the same battle. I doubt that if the GOP attacked AA from that angle, it would face any opposition. Middle class minorities don't really have a need for AA for they have the resources to compete with their white peers. Why won't conservatives do it? Because it removes a convenient boogeyman, and it shows beyond a doubt that poor whites are no better than their black counterparts. That's been a big part of conservative ideology for decades. Minorities getting more than their "Fair" share has been a rallying cry for mediocre white people for decades, despite evidence that the typical minority that does find success does it mostly on their own. It is a soothing lullaby to those that refuse to admit that they are crap. It's easier to say "That black person got it because they are black" than to say "Odds are he earned that spot, and I should take notes".

    Leave a comment:


  • TTURedRaider
    replied
    Originally posted by Spartan View Post
    Race is, as usual, a stand in for class. At the same time, it never hurts to be white. A demographic shift may change that one day. Or maybe not.
    It is a stand in for class.

    People can be advantaged in some ways but not in others. It depends. A person's white skin will not be an asset to them in every conceivable place or situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • tOSUfanboi2
    replied
    Originally posted by Deschet View Post

    Yeah. I’m actually pretty sure about that.
    That's a lot of confidence to have when talking about people you don't even know.

    What else can you tell me?

    Leave a comment:


  • Deschet
    replied
    Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

    You sure about that? Because I'm not.
    Yeah. I’m actually pretty sure about that.

    Leave a comment:


  • tOSUfanboi2
    replied
    Originally posted by Deschet View Post

    True. But they give less of a fuck for the guys living in the hood across town from you.
    You sure about that? Because I'm not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deschet
    replied
    Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

    Grass is always greener on the other side. The cops don't give a fuck about me, bro.
    True. But they give less of a fuck for the guys living in the hood across town from you.

    Leave a comment:


  • tOSUfanboi2
    replied
    Originally posted by DPR View Post

    This reminds me of the Chappelle skit where he says black people will happily trade being able to use racist slurs in public to white people in exchange for being able to say "is there a problem, OFFICER?"
    Grass is always greener on the other side. The cops don't give a fuck about me, bro.

    Leave a comment:


  • DSMoneypit
    replied
    Originally posted by Deschet View Post

    We’ve been over this before. The entire notion is that whites generally don’t experience adversity based on our race.

    To bring back an example. I hear gunshots near my place in a nice, gentrified area. The cops show up a half an hour later. Or more. I believe you had this happen to you. Now, go a few blocks over. Someone hears gunshots. Calls the cops. They show up over an hour later. Or more. You agreed with this example once upon a time.

    And sorry bro. You’re not going to rip me to shreds.
    Your example is less about race and more about facts of life. In your example, the same could be applied an old mining town in WV full of people like the Whites. It's not about race it's about money. Unfortunately minorities are disproportionately on the poorer side, they do not hold a monopoly on being poor, and poor white people are just as hard pressed as minorities.

    I think I read somewhere that the avg household income of violent felons families was in the neighborhood of 20k a year and for non-violent felons was over 40k.

    Leave a comment:


  • tOSUfanboi2
    replied
    Originally posted by Spartan View Post

    I figured that you would be the one to bring up affirmative action.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...44WEcn9FqfX_4z

    As far as saying whatever you feel, go ahead. You aren't ostracized because you're white, though. You're ostracized because society thinks it's stupid. You know perfectly well that a Black person would be labeled a thug for saying the same thing. Maybe not by the same people, but it is just as inevitable.
    Really? White women is who you're going to lean on here? And in the south no less? Come on, bro.

    Oh, I do. As far as not being ostracized because I'm white goess, that all depends on where you are and who you're around. Where are people being ostracized because they're black? Because from what I've seen, outside of small towns that generally hate everybody outside of their circle, that isn't happening either.

    Leave a comment:

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