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According to the APA, traditional masculinity is harmful

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  • According to the APA, traditional masculinity is harmful

    Remember when people were just paranoid nut nut jobs for saying this would happen?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/s...y-harmful.html

    I don't think I need to say much on this topic, but I will ask a simple question. Where would humanity be without the natural male propensity to take risks and endanger themselves? Whether you think it's a social construct or biological in origin, it's an undeniable fact that we only live in the world we do because of the very behavior they're condemning.

  • #2
    The only APA that matters

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post
      Remember when people were just paranoid nut nut jobs for saying this would happen?

      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/s...y-harmful.html

      I don't think I need to say much on this topic, but I will ask a simple question. Where would humanity be without the natural male propensity to take risks and endanger themselves? Whether you think it's a social construct or biological in origin, it's an undeniable fact that we only live in the world we do because of the very behavior they're condemning.
      I got a little bit of a different read out of it. Kind of what the Laura Ingram quote was getting at.

      I don't think this is condemning men taking risks, being adventurous, pushing the envelop, being "brave", being strong for their families, being providers. I think this is condemning men who call feminine kids faggots, men who think they have the right to take things that don't belong to them (women, money, etc), men who don't show love and support to their children because "caring makes you a pussy", men who refuse to ask for help because it will make them feel like less of a man

      That kind of stuff. Thoughts?
      Last edited by Foster4Prez; 01-11-2019, 08:32 AM.

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      • #4
        Here are the 10 items. They all sounds pretty legitimate to me without reading the 20,000 word back up for each.
        1. Psychologists strive to recognize that masculinities are constructed based on social, cultural, and contextual norms.
        2. Psychologists strive to recognize that boys and men integrate multiple aspects to their social identities across the lifespan.
        3. Psychologists understand the impact of power, privilege, and sexism on the development of boys and men and on their relationships with others.
        4. Psychologists strive to develop a comprehensive understanding of the factors that influence the interpersonal relationships of boys and men.
        5. Psychologists strive to encourage positive father involvement and healthy family relationships.
        6. Psychologists strive to support educational efforts that are responsive to the needs of boys and men.
        7. Psychologists strive to reduce the high rates of problems boys and men face and act out in their lives such as aggression, violence, substance abuse, and suicide.
        8. Psychologists strive to help boys and men engage in health-related behaviors.
        9. Psychologists strive to build and promote gender-sensitive psychological services.
        10. Psychologists understand and strive to change institutional, cultural, and systemic problems that affect boys and men through advocacy, prevention, and education.

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        • #5
          Where would humanity be without the natural male propensity to take risks and endanger themselves?

          in a world with less environmental destruction, wars, overzealous religions, and more gender equality. Off the top of my head.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

            I got a little bit of a different read out of it. Kind of what the Laura Ingram quote was getting at.

            I don't think this is condemning men taking risks, being adventurous, pushing the envelop, being "brave", being strong for their families, being providers. I think this is condemning men who call feminine kids faggots, men who think they have the right to take things that don't belong to them (women, money, etc), men who don't show love and support to their children because "caring makes you a pussy", men who refuse to ask for help because it will make them feel like less of a man

            That kind of stuff. Thoughts?
            It pretty clearly calls out risk taking behavior and aggression, which aren't necessarily bad.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Snidde22 View Post
              Where would humanity be without the natural male propensity to take risks and endanger themselves?

              in a world with less environmental destruction, wars, overzealous religions, and more gender equality. Off the top of my head.
              You forgot no utilities, basically no technology, a high infant mortality rate, and half the life expectancy.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post
                It pretty clearly calls out risk taking behavior and aggression, which aren't necessarily bad.
                There are positive and negative risk taking behaviors. There are positive and negative uses of aggression.

                I don't read this as a carte blanche condemnation of the whole of both.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Foster4Prez View Post

                  There are positive and negative risk taking behaviors. There are positive and negative uses of aggression.

                  I don't read this as a carte blanche condemnation of the whole of both.
                  I guess we see it differently, then. I don't see these distinctions being made.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                    It pretty clearly calls out risk taking behavior and aggression, which aren't necessarily bad.
                    Risk taking behavior and controlled aggression are fine. Being a dumbass meathead is something we could all do without. That's where a lot of us rational people draw the line. No one wants a world of neckbeards afraid of their own shadow. That said, we don't want a bunch of dumbass morons running around messing with people just because they can. There's a healthy balance between being a rational, strong man, and being somewhat sensitive and understanding of others. Moderation is key, just like it is in damn near everything else in life.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Canedude08 View Post

                      Risk taking behavior and controlled aggression are fine. Being a dumbass meathead is something we could all do without. That's where a lot of us rational people draw the line. No one wants a world of neckbeards afraid of their own shadow. That said, we don't want a bunch of dumbass morons running around messing with people just because they can. There's a healthy balance between being a rational, strong man, and being somewhat sensitive and understanding of others. Moderation is key, just like it is in damn near everything else in life.
                      I agree with you, but you can't deny that the majority of people talking about this currently fall into two camps. You have those who want to let the base nature of men run wild, and those that want to destroy men entirely. The humanities are currently dominated by people in the latter camp, while an increasingly large segment of society represents the other. Think about it, is it really any surprise that the highest rungs of society find the ugly side of men so horrific that they see no other choice but to destroy them? And can anyone blame the lowest for taking the opposite approach when everything in their environment demonstrates the power of raw, untamed masculinity? Go to any trailer park or hood and see who's at the top of the pecking order.

                      I know it's not PC to say it, but every one of us knows that a man on a mission is a nearly unstoppable force. It has no female equivalent whether we like it or not, and neutering men out of fear or in a sad attempt to elevate women only makes both weaker. The solution to bad men is good men, and good men are created by a society that fosters their best characteristics and restrains their worst.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nutt View Post
                        The only APA that matters

                        Damn it. I wanted to be first. LMAO

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tOSUfanboi2 View Post

                          I agree with you, but you can't deny that the majority of people talking about this currently fall into two camps. You have those who want to let the base nature of men run wild, and those that want to destroy men entirely. The humanities are currently dominated by people in the latter camp, while an increasingly large segment of society represents the other. Think about it, is it really any surprise that the highest rungs of society find the ugly side of men so horrific that they see no other choice but to destroy them? And can anyone blame the lowest for taking the opposite approach when everything in their environment demonstrates the power of raw, untamed masculinity? Go to any trailer park or hood and see who's at the top of the pecking order.

                          I know it's not PC to say it, but every one of us knows that a man on a mission is a nearly unstoppable force. It has no female equivalent whether we like it or not, and neutering men out of fear or in a sad attempt to elevate women only makes both weaker. The solution to bad men is good men, and good men are created by a society that fosters their best characteristics and restrains their worst.
                          You are also forgetting that it's the extremists on both sides that draw the headlines and attention. Of course you have the lower classes worshipping at the altar of truly toxic masculinity, it's also the reason why the lower classes will never be anything better. The people that realize that untamed masculinity(and rewarding it with consistent, unprotected sex) leads to dysfunction usually make it out of the hood.

                          The APA can say whatever they want, but common sense will eventually rule. There's a reason why most rational psychologists and mental health professionals disregarded the APAs stance on gay people decades ago. Diagnostic judgment is a big part of the job. I don't expect this to be some huge development, because the dumbasses who were treating it as toxic yesterday is going to continue treating it as such, while the people who had common sense will not magically stop using it when dealing with their male patients.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Canedude08 View Post

                            You are also forgetting that it's the extremists on both sides that draw the headlines and attention. Of course you have the lower classes worshipping at the altar of truly toxic masculinity, it's also the reason why the lower classes will never be anything better. The people that realize that untamed masculinity(and rewarding it with consistent, unprotected sex) leads to dysfunction usually make it out of the hood.

                            The APA can say whatever they want, but common sense will eventually rule. There's a reason why most rational psychologists and mental health professionals disregarded the APAs stance on gay people decades ago. Diagnostic judgment is a big part of the job. I don't expect this to be some huge development, because the dumbasses who were treating it as toxic yesterday is going to continue treating it as such, while the people who had common sense will not magically stop using it when dealing with their male patients.
                            I suppose you're right. It's easy to forget that the people I'm talking about are highly educated professionals who no doubt lean more on their own knowledge and experience than the proclamations of an organization. Still, I'd hate to see future mental health professionals take shit like this too close to heart and damage their patients. Men now more than ever need to reconnect with their masculinity by engaging in things that make them feel powerful and confident. Eating right, working out, taking chances socially, channeling their aggression in positive ways, standing up for themselves, those are the things I see lacking in most men nowadays.

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